Viper 640 Class Association Forums

So, the never ending debate about winter sailing continues... The real question is, do we want to leave our boats in 1 location for 3 of 4 regattas, or travel for all four?

The Exec Committee is likely to consider essentially two options. Either will include Bacardi Miami and Charleston plus two others. We'll choose something like one of these two to promote as the Class sanctioned regattas, which we will promote:

1. Two additional regattas in Miami, plus Bacardi, then on to Charleston. We'll work out storage for boats between events.

2. Something like: Houston, Mardi Gras, Bacardi & Charleston.

Obviously, you can sail wherever and and whenever you like, but it's better if we're mostly on the same page, and turning out more boats.

Please let us know what you think (which rarely requires encouragement!), though this is informational, not a binding vote....

Also consider that moving to different venues may encourage participation of a local viper at a regatta near you.  Sarnia got some very press after Brad came down to MGRW last year.   

Not to mention sailing against new people is another draw.     

I think you could probably pay someone to drive your boat from Houston - New Orleans - Miami - Charleston for what it would cost to leave the boat in Miami for three regatta's. 

I like the idea of Houston to Charleston by way of the French Quarter and South Beach....

With the time we had at MARDI GRAS last year, I highly encourage this stop to be included. You will not find a better venue and drinking platform.

I will tell you this, New Orleans YC has already invested in some new infrastructure for MGRW and this includes a total rebuilding and extension of our floating docks and piers. Also the re-construction of our building and grounds should also be complete by then - progressing nicely finally.

Hope to have you guys back down big time in 2012 (February 22 ? 26).

Walking into the clubhouse (which is basically a giant bar) last year before the skippers meeting to see Troy and crew with multiple shots lined up warmed my heart (and my liver).

And to add;  we can most likely help anyone who leaves their rig (car and trailer) in Houston get it to New Orleans.  That would save almost a day off work.    Storage in Houston - not an issue, probably the same in New Orleans.

New Orleans YC and Houston YC  [HYC] have really stepped up to the plate and made everyone welcome at their events. Plus, I'm more likely to get my crew interested in multiple locations rather than return trips.   

As another Texas boat, I totally support a Houston stop and MGRW.  Multiple stops a big plus to my crew.

Brad
#134 - Catapult

Being right across the lake from New Orleans YC, I'm a little biased...  But I want to see more Vipers on the Gulf Coast.  Some people aren't going to be able to find the time to revisit the same sailing location 2 or 3 times.  And if they do, it's going to be the same group over and over again.  By moving locations, new people will be exposed to the class and those Viper types who can't afford to travel far get a chance to race.  I know personally, I can't make Miami, especially more than once in a year.  But I can drive to Houston, Dallas or Atlanta...

I really like the idea of giving Viper demos the day before racing for any larger event we do.  It's great for building more interest in the boat and class.

I also think a rolling Viper tour through the Gulf Coast will really give the GYA folks something to sink their teeth into...  they are looking for a replacement for the Flying Snott....

Make mine a Mardi Gras, por favor.  Ya come down to Texas, hear?

I like the idea of a tour-de-GYA - nice locations.  NOLA was great this year, as was Fort Walton.    For me, Houston is farther away than Sarnia and even two hours farther than Miami.  I'd like to do Houston, but it will be a big trip when I go there.

I think Fort Walton should be a consideration.  Sounds like a great regatta venue and we would like to go there in 2012.   

To complicate this a bit more , Mauri Sailing's Corpus regatta was an awesome event this year.  However, it needs more PR and it conflicted with Fort Walton.  How do we fit this in to the schedule?  I think it is scheduled for the week after Mother's Day in 2012.

Brad
#134 Catapult
Houston

Let's add another idea - Lake Lewisville.  We used the Dallas Leukemia Regatta  in May as a Texas Viper circuit stop and it was great.  Super venue, great people and the RC did a superb job.   

I suggest we add a layover day so we can sail up to Party Cove and socialize.  Check it out on Google :)

Brad
#134  Catapult
Houston

Houston would be a great place for a Viper regatta.  Great wind, warm water, and its easy to get to.  Lots of Viper interest here, and we pull boats from all over Texas.

The local Viper fleet in Houston (Texas, for that matter) has alot of momentum right now. 
From a racing standpoint, Houston Yacht Club is tough to beat. Two tacks and you're on the bay; very little, if any, recreation motorboat traffic; plenty of room for various courses; plenty of depth for a Viper (no 'gotcha' rocks like say...Texoma...thanks.) good winds, warm water.  Fairly spacious guest dock and empty slips. 
In Houston, the weather/water temp allows us to race nearly year round so that would be a plus when scheduling an early spring or late fall event 

The HYC facitiy itself is a really nice facility to bring friends and family... (No, I'm not a member!)
Nonracing friends/family/kids (you have nonracing friends?) can spend the day riding the ferris wheel/various resteraunts in Kemah, tour NASA (just down the road) or check our Galveston Island which is a half hour drive.

I am psyched that the gulf coast fleet is growing, but speaking as a northerner on the thread who has limited vacation time and who is unsure about how easy it'd be to move the boat around to all these venues, I think option 1 works better with a couple of regattas in Miami where we can leave the mast up, fly in late, go race, put the cover back on, fly out and only figure out transport down and transport back. 

It's great that people feel very confident that they can figure out how to move boats around to all of these sites, but it'd be more helpful/reassuring if someone could put some concrete suggestions for how to do this and how much it'd cost.  I know that the following situation will not be viable for many people, including myself:

- Drive from NY to Houston in January (1.5 days), then race for 3-4 days, fly home from Houston, leave only car in Texas

- Fly back to Texas a few weeks later, drive from Houston to New Orleans for MGRW.  Assuming we fly in Thursday morning and drive, we stand at best a chance of making one practice race, doing the 3 days of racing, and flying out, leaving the car somewhere in New Orleans.  Or, driving from New Orleans to Miami immediately post racing and flying out Monday morning from Miami, exhausted. 

- Fly in for Bacardi Thursday night, rig Friday morning and race with no practice, drive from Miami to Charleston post racing, leave car in Charleston. 

- Then do Charleston a month later, pick up car, bring boat home.

Best case scenario involves me not having a car for 3+ months in NY, taking 6-8 days off of work in a 3-month time span even though we don't get in a single practice day, doing an extended round trip flight from Houston to NY, a one way flight to Miami, and a one-way flight to Charleston.  I know nobody said it was easy, but it makes the odds of doing the circuit way less likely, esp. when looking at the summer hall passes needed for Newport Sailing Week, Marblehead NOOD, NAs and hopefully one of these days again, a regatta in Kingston (CORK or a standalone event). 

Vs. driving down to Miami or paying someone for a one-way delivery down, leaving mast up, getting in a tiny bit of practice before events, taking only 3-4 days off of work, doing a couple of regattas plus Charleston and only losing the car at most for 1.5 months. 

There should definitely be a gulf coast circuit -- but I think it'll be tricky to get a bunch of boats from the northeast to come down as well unless we can work out the logistics. 

In the meantime, if there's going to be another event or two in Miami besides Bacardi Cup, I know at least 3, and maybe all 5-6 of the Larchmont boats are very interested. 

For a Mid-Winter, Florida only series, the Etchells class runs a four regatta event called the Jaguar Cup...  I do not know if you can share the course / event with them, but it might not hurt to ask...

Quote from: Tim Carter on June 30, 2011, 02:28:09 PM
For a Mid-Winter, Florida only series, the Etchells class runs a four regatta event called the Jaguar Cup...  I do not know if you can share the course / event with them, but it might not hurt to ask...

The Etchells Jag Cup is the model for a similar Viper series. And no, they won't let us in, we've asked!
(Can't have those inexpensive, pesky, quick, little boats in the Jag!)

Coral Reef Cup out of Coral Reef YC would be one of the other Miami events. We went to that a few years ago, that would be with Etchells.

All these ideas are great, but my personal conflict is selecting vacation weeks a year in advance - as in, this September I choose when to be off for all of 2012.  Whatever is decided, I will do all the races I can and support those who will be in the front of the fleet. . .  But can we try to get it worked out by early September?

David Oliver
Touch of Grey #91

Open for travelling and understand The Yankee's points. 

So if the goal is to have a large turnout for a winter series/circuit to include boats for Texas/OK, The Southeast, East Coast and the Great White North (anything north of Interstate 10).  Then a single point venue with a decent aipport and mast up storage is the way to go.    If the goal to to have a travelling ciruit to showcase the boats, then a reduced number of entrants will have to be expected, just on the matter of logisitcs and costs alone. 

I think that a sinle point venue showcases the class in the media and a travelling ciruit showcases the boats to prospective buyers/sailors.  This being said, what is the goal other than sailing and drinking, for the winter series?

If ya'll want a travelling circuit, I think we can arrange something in Fort Walton (we have not only Greyhound station, but an aiport too).  If ya'll go with a single point venue, Fdub will not schedule anything for the winter.

Craig and Deborah
#100 Ice Melted

I think I should be a little more clear. 

We are open for anything.  I think rather than figuring out what regattas and where, I think the first thing to be decided is what is the over all goal.  Showcase the Class, or Showcase the Boat.  Single winter series venue showcases the class.  Where a multipoint ciruit showcases the boat.  Thta should be decedied first, in my opinion, on what we all want, and then move forward from there.

At the same time having multiple events in different parts of the country is not so much as a bad thing.  In 2011, D and I had the choice to either go to Miami or Mardi Gras.  We wanted Miami, but chose Mardi Gras to support a GYA club, support a GYA Viper owner, see some old friends I have not seen in awhile (Jones and company), and showcase the boat to the GYA.  When D and I were shopping for a sportie, we were looking at the Melges 20.  One of the negative aspects of the Melges 20 was that the nearest 1D stuff was the winter series and that was it.  No choices, either drop way to much cash to race the Melges 20 winter series and leave the boat down there, or race PHRF.  Having the choice to do one event or another is actually a pretty good selling point to a prospective buyer.
Another thought is future costs of attending events, gas, taxes, hotels, etc etc, I would think that we will see less and less "big" national single events, and more and more "medium" regional events in sailing in general.  Sure, there will still be the "giant" events but costs will slwo down regattas eventually.


Craig

Regatta's will be bigger (more boats in attendance) if it rolls through the gulf, at least i think.  

A regatta in Houston and New Orleans would be 20+ boats if anyone from the NE showed.   MGRW could be 30.  That would probably pull some texans down to Miami for Bacardi.

Understand the time off issue, just seems quite a shame that the class would elect to spend two extra weeks in miami where there are no vipers and pretty much no possibility of building a fleet when they could throw some support behind some venue's that would benifit from the attention.    

That said, if Marblehead thinks a miami only series will help build the Northeast fleet or you'll loose too many boat's if you elect to sail in the gulf - go to miami.  Truth is, Feb weather can be a little iffy and theres a much better chance of having perfect conditions in Miami.

Quote from: Craig Wilusz on July 01, 2011, 07:54:45 AM
Open for travelling and understand The Yankee's points. 

So if the goal is to have a large turnout for a winter series/circuit to include boats for Texas/OK, The Southeast, East Coast and the Great White North (anything north of Interstate 10).  Then a single point venue with a decent aipport and mast up storage is the way to go.    If the goal to to have a travelling ciruit to showcase the boats, then a reduced number of entrants will have to be expected, just on the matter of logisitcs and costs alone. 

I think that a sinle point venue showcases the class in the media and a travelling ciruit showcases the boats to prospective buyers/sailors.  This being said, what is the goal other than sailing and drinking, for the winter series?

If ya'll want a travelling circuit, I think we can arrange something in Fort Walton (we have not only Greyhound station, but an aiport too).  If ya'll go with a single point venue, Fdub will not schedule anything for the winter.

Craig and Deborah
#100 Ice Melted

It seems clear that we, as a class, need to find a way to better move boats about.

Paul Yound and I have discussed the possibility of building  metal frames that can be bolted to a trailer with it's axle removed, then allow the boats to be stacked, pallet style, on a 40' flatbed. A little bit of preplanning should allow us to stack 6 boats on a trailer. We would need to shrink wrap the boats to keep the road grime off them but 40' flatbeds are everywhere as are the trucks that can easily haul them.

Even better would be dollies as the wheels just pop on and off.

Do we have any shipping companies in our midst that can coordinate some trailer moves?

If we can pull this off, it should be very easy to have a trailer show up at a location, pull the trailer/Dollie off, go race, load it back on for the next regatta.

What say yee?

Quote from: Craig Wilusz on July 01, 2011, 07:54:45 AM
If ya'll want a travelling circuit, I think we can arrange something in Fort Walton (we have not only Greyhound station, but an aiport too).  If ya'll go with a single point venue, Fdub will not schedule anything for the winter.

I'd be very happy with a single point venue AT Fort Walton - but I'm being selfish as it's the closest venue to me, but it's also closer to both New England and Texas than Miami is. :-)


When we talk about a travel circuit starting in Houston vs a single point in Miami, except for a few boats, I'm not sure we're even talking about the same people.  Houston is a damn long ways from New England, and Miami is a damn long ways from Texas, so maybe we should just do both.  Even a small group doing a 3 weekend series in Miami would show the class can pull off such a thing, and a travel group doing a circuit in TX/GYA at the same time would show the class has depth.  

So we could do a "Emerald Coast" tour, Houston-New Orleans-Ft. Walton, while there is a 3 event Southern Florida gig.  Then the majority hook up @ Charleston??

I like the sound of that, a lot!  Ft. Walton have something we can hit in March?   I might just finish that 6-boat rig i've been working on and pile on Texas boat's for that tour.

Jay, we enjoyed reading about your Ft. Walton visit and would be jazzed to sail there (as long as debroah promises no more J.M. shots)

Quote from: Tim Carter on July 01, 2011, 01:54:16 PM
So we could do a "Emerald Coast" tour, Houston-New Orleans-Ft. Walton, while there is a 3 event Southern Florida gig.  Then the majority hook up @ Charleston??

UPDATE -

Just wanted to let you all know that we have a committee working on the boat move issue. It's made up of owners from all over the USA and has the exec committee strategically involved. 10 people putting their minds together to solve a problem....that's why this class rocks !,

If the boat moving situation gets reconciled in a way that makes sense/doesn't hurt boats while transporting, etc., we may be in for the entire traveling roadshow, Texas, Louisiana, Florida or otherwise.  Can't wait to hear what the possible suggestions are. 

GBR 123 wants to sail in the Gulf!

but a couple of "fly in" events in Miami sounds great.

in regards to eggshells... i reckon they would switch to a viper
if they saw us plane past them and fill the bar/pub before they get in ;)

just need to go by the 3 b program...

breeze, beer and babes...

One of the interesting aspects of the Viper class is that it seems to be developning both a grassroots identity and the persona of a polished international class at the same time. 
I suspect the grassroots appeal is due to the unique class ownership and relatively low cost of entry for one design sailing. 
Class leadership has done a fantastic job of recruiting an international sponsor and geograpically spreading the focus events as much as possible to create an international flavor in North America.
 
I think it is vitally important that we keep growing the persona of the class as both a grassroots and international appeal.  In a sport that has been shrinking in participation for several years our class currently enjoys this broad appeal. 

An annual regional event in the Midwest / Great Lakes and on the Western Gulf Coast (Louisiana / Texas) are just as important as an annual East and West coast event.  Three regattas particularly at a venue so geographically remote as Miami will be a challenge to maintaining growth of the grassroots appeal. 

I voted for the travelling scene, but after thinking about the logistics of it all, would rather see a multi date series in one location. Say for winter 2012 we do Fort Walton? Winter 2013 Houston?

Just easier to buy a bunch of plane tickets to one place (that has future Viper potential) and pick a new place each winter.

My 2 cents

Dave