Fresh off a great Bacardi Miami Sailing Week, and getting pumped up for Charleston, I spent some time on the phone today with our friend in Miami, Mark Pincus.
We have dates penciled in for 3 events for 2013, including Bacardi and Coral Reef Cup. Storage (mast up) at US Sailing Center is arranged. Mark said that Viper sailors were asking him for a 4th event in December of 2012 to kick off the series. We can pull that off, probably 2 weeks before Christmas.
Feedback SOON please! I want to get us on the Biscayne Bay racing calendar ASAP, before other classes start snagging dates. We're WAY ahead of the curve for next winter right now. The Sailing Center/CRYC combo seemed to work well for people, I want to nail that down for next year.
I think we can pull 25-35 Vipers for a 3-4 regatta series with storage, if planned now. Might be able to secure a sponsor (a la Jaguar), to help with costs if we start soon too.
What say you? 3 events or 4?
Initial reaction is 3. What are the dates of the 3 or 4 that you have lined up?
We're planning to be in for next year, but a well organized circuit planned well in advance with a bunch of people committed early would definitely sweeten the pot for that. Sufficient spacing between the events (4-5 weeks apart each) would also be preferable.
I would love to know who Dave Nickerson uses for his polling, because it sure isn't anybody I speak to.
IMHO a december event would be great. That would mean that most owners would not have to find any winter storage but finish up the last events up north and then think about bringing the boat south.
Matt - Sorry, poorly phrased. Was only speaking for myself. For me, it depends on when they are.
If we stay off the Etchells weekends it would be easier around the clubs and let some of the people that sail both to keep doing so. We need as many boats down there as possible.
Brad
I can commit to 3 or 4, whichever you guys decide.
My personal preference would be for three starting in February. Have always found it hard to focus on December events with all the holiday related stuff. That and based on lots of years sailing Etchells in December and January, the conditions are considerably less reliable than in Feb/Mar.
Jonathan
I'd be interested in teaming up with someone to race the series....be easier on expense and crew.
Dave
Bacardi will be 2/7-2/9 2013
Coral Reef Cup will be 3/23-3/24
We're trying to get a January date, possibly 12-13, but OCR is 2 weeks later and serious Olympians will be overrunning the place. That would be fine with us, not with them or USSC. They're balking at having a January event, would rather do February, which doesn't make sense with Bacardi. I'm pushing for Jan 5/6.
December dates under consideration are 12/8-9 or 12/15-16 (too close to Christmas IMO). This is the key question, do we want to push for a December? Don't forget, it means another month of paid storage at USSC... They go by calendar month.
Bacardi is 3/7 in 2013, not 2/7, right? It's always early March.
It would be great if the breakdown was something like this:
- MLK weekend in mid January (overrun with Olympians at USSC but no other regattas there apart from anyone who is in Key West, which isn't really a conflict concern for most of the class)
- Bacardi Cup in early March
- It'd be nice if there was a later gap instead of Coral Reef effectively 2 weeks after Bacardi, but it is what it is. I'd even be ok with just two regattas plus Charleston if I knew that the two regattas would be well attended -- certainly easier to swing with work.
Wow, I haven't planned past Charleston this year! I think spacing is the most important thing. 4-5 weeks between events. Anything much closer together would be tough.
Lee, you guys thinkin all Miami and no MGRW or both?
MGRW is mid Feb again next year (i think??)
Quote from: Lee Eikel on March 21, 2012, 02:26:12 PM
Wow, I haven't planned past Charleston this year! I think spacing is the most important thing. 4-5 weeks between events. Anything much closer together would be tough.
MGRW is easy for us since it is in our back yard so we still do it even if we had to bring the boat back from a Miami event (granted there were a enough boats to make a good class). Although a string of Miami events could mean bad things for MGRW. In short for me 4-5 week intervals would be good on out of town regattas. Miami sure was fun, seeing the stern of that red boat all 3 days was the only bad part ;) .
Jeff is right on the 2013 Mardi Gras timing. It would be nice if a few boats were motivated enough to do all of those events. I've been asked to try to help coordinate more of this stuff nationally to help turnouts, and I'm open to suggestions. Mardi Gras is an important event, and Bacardi Cup is an important event. Having Mardi Gras as a floating date is tricky, but we'll work around it. My vision would be something like this:
Miami regatta in mid January -- no Mardi Gras conflict -- if the Gulf Coast boats are motivated enough to make the trip east before Mardi Gras, fantastic. If not, it gives the east coast guys a chance to get their boats down there. Make it a holiday weekend to give people more incentive to show up and fewer excuses.
Mardi Gras mid February in New Orleans.
Bacardi Cup early March
Coral Reef Cup end of March if this is the event that we decide we want to support. It's a bit closer than I'd like to Bacardi. The alternative is pushing for a stand-alone regatta one week after Coral Reef Cup, but that bumps up against Charleston a bit.
Charleston in mid April. Again, a bit closer to Coral Reef than I'd like, but everyone loves Charleston.
Miami becomes most cost effective when you can do at least two regattas down there, and Jonathan, Dan, Justin and others have worked hard to figure out an affordable mast-up storage option for the class that could be feasible going forward.
By comparison, here's what the M20s have for a schedule:
Gold Cup: December 8-11
Miami Champs: Feb. 11-12
Bacardi March 8-10
Charleston Apr. 20-22
The spacing works well and they had a good turnout for their December event despite jamming it in between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and despite the concern about inconsistent weather that time of year in Miami. The only problem with this setup is that if you have two events prior to Bacardi, you run the risk of people leaving for Mardi Gras and not coming back for Bacardi, which isn't a good option (or alternatively, not going to Mardi Gras). It's something that we'll have to kick around a bit more. But like I said earlier, suggestions welcome.
I agree with the proper spacing and number of events. I did not make Miami this year but plan to in the future but we do have to pay attention to quality over quantity. I agree with Lee that MGRW could really be affected if you lose just 3-4 boats by adding 2-3 event in Miami. I like the idea of 2 Miami events position well around existing events if possible. That's just the viewpoint on one lone Northern boat:)
I think you nailed it down pretty good.
Just for kicks and grins lets use the M20 schedule as a template
Gold Cup: December 8-11 --- A Viper event around this date is cool with me.
Miami Champs: Feb. 11-12 --- If MGRW was not gonna be well attended this would also be good.
Bacardi March 8-10 --- We know this works
Coarl Reef Cup --- This is the one that would be tough, to soon after Bacardi to close to Charleston.
Charleston Apr. 20-22 --- Don't mess with 40 boats on the line.
Just my 2 cents
I agree with Lee, the Coral Reef Cup is just to tight in between the Bicardi and Charleston. I think at least 4 weeks in between events would work well.
I liked this years schedule so this is what I would like to see.
Cupid Cup 16-17 February
Bacardi Sailing Week 7-9 March
Coral Reef Cup 23-24 March
No Conflict with Miami OCR.
If I was to do a fourth event 8-9 December would get the biggest turn out, I personally don't care if we conflict with the Melges 20 as I don't see many sailors crossing over. We could also move the Cupid Cup to the week before to give more time between that and Bacardi.
MGRW is a great stepping stone to Miami for the boats out west, so I hope that it stays on the Viper calendar. In terms of Miami racing, I would prefer 1-2 well-attended regattas over 3-4 smaller events. Glad we're planning ahead!
-Jimbo
we don't plan to attend a series but!
I think you would attract new people to the class by having a few events
in the one spot over winter!
the etchells and M20s do it.
I spoke to a few etchells sailors at the recent sydney worlds and they love
there miami series but like the idea of planning downwind instead of plowing!
so you could convert a few people
Quote from: David Chapman on March 22, 2012, 07:34:42 AMI think you would attract new people to the class by having a few events
in the one spot over winter!
the etchells and M20s do it.
I spoke to a few etchells sailors at the recent sydney worlds and they love
there miami series but like the idea of planning downwind instead of plowing!
so you could convert a few people
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! For Class growth, this is a significant reason for a 3-4 regatta series in Miami. It's a big draw for a lot of people to have an easy, low-hassle way to do some regular racing in a nice venue over the winter. Granted, that's primarily east coast and mid-west owners that at Miami series would attract. From a commercial POV, Miami happens to be a great venue to sell boats- "Hey, why don't you fly in for the weekend from whatever cold, snowy, miserable place you are and try sailing a Viper?" Wallets get looser...
It would be nice to think that we could dictate the dates we want, but the reality of sailing in Coconut Grove is that there is a LOT going on, including OCR, that we have to work around as a "newcomer". The infrastructure (storage/launch/RC) is also pretty stressed by the demand from lots of Classes. After Bacardi, there was a huge Lightning regatta, then a huge Snipe Regatta. I'm pushing hard to keep the events at least 3 weeks apart, and no more than 5 weeks apart. Right the racing calendar for the Bay is relatively open, other than the longstanding events like OCR, Bacardi and Coral Reef Cup. M20 regattas are not an issue, they're off in their Melges cocoon.
There is no intent to try to compete with MGRW, but due to the way MGRW moves around, scheduling conflicts are inevitable some years. CRW also moves around a bit to try to provide favorable tides for the leadmines sailing outside to get in and out with favorable current. Some years it would be closer to Coral Reef Cup than others. The answer is the same to this problem as it has always been- Let's keep growing the Class! More owners, more boats out there, and the regional events only get better and better, and conflicts matter less and less. This year has been a turning point for the Viper Class in this regard, I was looking at the calendar to schedule a demo, and it struck me how many weekends had overlapping events around the country. As a relatively "old-timer" I was floored. I think that as a Class, we need to begin to focus on regional conflicts more than inter-regional conflicts.
My opinion is that a "stay-put" series is a bigger draw with 4 events than 3, but you guys are all over the map!
Can we please try to focus on the question? :) 3 events or 4??
Dan, can you edit the original post and insert a poll?
Just throwing out an idea, might get the best of both worlds.
The way the Bacardi works for travellers is that you take Tuesday thru Friday off work. Even if your boat is already in place, you are taking Weds thru Friday off.
You get to Coconut Grove. Its beautiful. The weather is gorgeous. The sailing is awesome. The beaches and restaurants look great. But its rushed and I always go away wishing I had more sailing and more time to relax.
I rented a cool little house in the grove this year but didnt spend much time there.I would have loved a day swinging in the hammock, having some Viper friends over for a cookout and checking out the beach, maybe taking the Viper out for a cruise to the bar/restaurant at the end of Key Biscayne. Maybe some fly fishing with Joe Healey and Glyn on the flats. What a great spot for a bit of R&R.
The cost of a week would not have been much more than what I paid for 4 days. Hotels are cheaper if you book a 1 week stay.
So I find myself thinking how about
Friday night/Saturday: Drive to Miami
Sunday/ Monday : 2 Day regatta hosted by USSC
Tuesday/Wednesday ; One Day of R & R. One Day cruise with the Viper fleet to somewhere fun.
Thursday/Friday/ Sat : Bacardi Cup.
Sunday : Fly home leaving boat behind for Coral Reef Cup in four weeks time.
4 weeks later Coral Reef Cup and then tow the boat to Charleston.
Advantages: Doesn't mess with MGRW
Its a real vacation, as well as sailing
We get three regattas with a lot less time off work and less hassle /expense.
Anyway...just an idea.
But I would like to make a monster plea for Bacradi to be brought forward one week earlier.
By George I think he has got something!
I like it.
last year I think we did a boat tour with Cliff? maybe not sure
he took us to the other side, not sure which island.
he spoke about some great cuban bar.
given the wind is most of the time from either, NE,E or SE.
we could leave upwind in the morning, have a feed, downwind home.
I think Justin will remember which bay/island the place was???
LOVE Justin's plan! Maybe that "cruise" day could be a distance race? We did a similar setup for California Lightning Circuit: 2 day regatta, lay day, 20-mile distance race (from Coronado up to Mission Bay, rum usually on board), then another regatta. Each segment scored as a separate regatta, but then overall circuit trophies presented, too. This was favorite annual tradition for many years. A whole week of sailing would be a huge reason to plan a "play-cation" in Miami!
-Jimbo
Something like what Justin suggests could convince some Texas boat's to make the trip to Miami, nice idea. I could also see some west coast fellas stacking up for a week-long event in miami then charleston.
Sears - if we do a distance race might i suggest allowing the addition of traps. Pretty quick and simple to stick on. Or figure out how to make it downwind the whole way. Cause i ain't hiking that long. ;-)
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 23, 2012, 05:24:08 AM
Sears - if we do a distance race might i suggest allowing the addition of traps. Pretty quick and simple to stick on.
Crawfish traps? Excellent idea and then cook out.
Nah...let's go for the cuban bar. Chappers is dead on. Cliff took us there in his rum runner. He would be game to escort the fleet and throw out refreshments and take passengers.
Well Viper Vacation week on the Biscayne seems to be gathering some favor.
Having the challenge of selecting vacation by the week, a year in advance, this would be a wonderful opportunity to get in a lot of sailing with the least amount of time away from job (and pleasing family who also want vacation at other times than regattas - thought I raised the kids better than that). Besides, I might manage to move up to next-to-DFL with all this concentrated practice!
David's post prompts another idea/suggestion.
A morning on one of the two lay days could be used for a dedicated Viper clinic where the emphasis could be 100% on coaching newer owners or anyone who wants to move up from dfl. Perhaps as prelude to the cruise.
The debriefs we hold during serious regattas are helpful. But in a unhurried break during a regatta/vacation, I think some of the more experienced Viper owners would have time to really sit down with other owners and walk around their boat with them.
Even as long as I have had my Viper, I recently benefited from having a second pair of eyes look over my boat. Dave Nickerson helped me prep my boat and had a couple of really useful ideas.
We could swap up crews for the cruise so that experienced owners and some of the better sailors in our fleet got to sail with the second half of the fleet for the friendly race to the cuban bar. I would be happy to do that.
Great ideas Justin, crew swapping would be key for learning