Next year, Indian Harbor Y.C. (Greenwich CT/Western Long Island Sound) is slated to host US Sailing's Championship of Champions. This is a 21 boat affair (20 competitors + one back-up boat) and will be held in the fall, probably the weekend after Columbus Day.
For those not familiar with this event... One-design class champions apply to race and US Sailing selects the 20. Prior winners have come from the Sunfish, Thistle, Flying Scot, Snipe and Lightning fleets (among others).
We had originally envisioned having this in Ideal 18s but with the dramatic growth of the Viper fleet, we're reconsidering. From a fleet building perspective it would be great to hold this event in Vipers. And from a competitors perspective, I'm sure they would appreciate being in Vipers over Ideals.
To do this, we would some combination of owners and builder to lend 21 boats for the long weekend. All boats would be fully insured. And in an ideal world, some sailmaker would make 21 identical sails that would be sold to the boat owners (or anyone else) at some modest concession.
How do folks think about this? Would you be willing to lend your boat to the event? Given the time of year, we could emphasize American's High Performance Regatta over Columbus Day weekend and the boats would be in the area for the CoC the following weekend.
Again, this would be a terrific opportunity to keep the momentum going and plant the Viper seed with 20 of the nation's top one-design sailors.
I'll start... 94 is available.
Jonathan
Geographically undesirable as it is, #104 is available for this. Not sure how to get it there.
If this were to happen, it would cement the Viper into the Eastern seaboard One-Design classes permanently. It very easily could be the boat to have...perception wise.
Hyde is the natural builder of sails for this event and I feel pretty confident that Richard (Hyde) would be willing to cut a deal on sails, given some prominent Hyde logoing.
I'd try to get Paul Young involved in this early. He's got a great relationship with Richard.
Hey boom, if you want to double boat it, Rick Peters style, I will make #33 or #38 available. Regatta entries might help offset costs. I know we have done this with the CARR in Solings in San Diego.
Fantastic idea Johnathan.
90% sure we'd make #50 available.
Anything to not subject people to less-than-Ideal 18's!
Just got the boat but I am up for putting 78 in.
One additional suggestion. Would the organizers be wiling to have an owners rep on board?
Double advantage:-
(a) Lending owner on board to make sure no damage and help train a newcomer to Viper-handling.
(b) One attractive reason to lend the boat, would be chance to sail with a NA champion. The attendees at this regatta are pretty high powered and the opportunity to crew with Morgan Larson, Augie Diaz etc is fun.
Love the concept of Hyde doing a deal for logo'd Hyde Champion of Champion sails.
One Idea (which might be shot down by my colleagues) is that the class votes to waive the sail restriction for these sails , so you get an inexpensive suit of new sails that do not count towards your annual sail inventory restriction. Could be a pUll!!
I don't think the owner rep thing will work but I like the sail purchase not counting as a set of your yearlies.
Does the class button sails?
Ok so considering drews comments in the other thread......
BUMP??
US Sailing has said to run the event in Ideal 18s so that's how things are likely to sort out. Unless we lobby hard with the majority of the boats committed right away, can't see this changing.
Jonathan
I just looked up the Ideal 18. Those things SUCK! What on earth possessed US Sailing to run the event in those shitters. Oh yeah I forgot its US Sailing.....
You can have my boat still. I like these CoC events and it would be good to be done in the Viper.
All the long island boats plus a few extras you must be able to rustle up 20 of em.
Quote from: jnye on December 17, 2009, 09:46:48 PM
US Sailing has said to run the event in Ideal 18s so that's how things are likely to sort out. Unless we lobby hard with the majority of the boats committed right away, can't see this changing.
Jonathan
For gawds sake say NOOOOOOOO. Ideal 18's? US Sailing is SO out of touch with the real world of sailing...why is that? I have a very long story about their commercial sailing certification program that I started with them and then bailed...600 pound gorilla that they are.
That's it, I'm not winning any nationals this year :-D
Chris Raab is gonna be pissed. I told him I'd be pushing hard for Vipers at the CoC.
Oh well, this will be another sleeper of a year.
Drew Daugherty (
[email protected] (http://
[email protected])) is the US Sailing coordinator and Sam Fortenbaugh (
[email protected] (http://
[email protected])) is the event chair. If interested in lobbying for the Viper, folks should feel free to reach out to either directly.
Jonathan
Quote from: jnye on December 18, 2009, 01:02:43 PM
Drew Daugherty ([email protected] (http://[email protected])) is the US Sailing coordinator and Sam Fortenbaugh ([email protected] (http://[email protected])) is the event chair. If interested in lobbying for the Viper, folks should feel free to reach out to either directly.
Jonathan
Thanks Jonathan.
Just sent the email below to the two guys you mentioned. Come on class...let's get these poor SOB's off the Ideal 18's.
================================
Hello Gentlemen,
I wanted to submit my voice to support the consideration of the Viper 640 as the class boat to race for the 2010 Champion of Champions regatta at Stamford Yacht Club.
I understand that you are looking for a tight one-design class and I feel that the Viper more than fulfills that criteria. Moreover, the Viper will provide champions a MUCH better opportunity for fun and skills growth than is possible on the Ideal 18 and will provide a much more interesting viewers perspective. Vipers are exciting, colorful, fast and relevant. This boat will surely test the skills of the skipper and crews and provide a thoroughly rewarding regatta experience.
I know that the local Viper fleet can easily accommodate resourcing 20 boats for this event and I assure you the class association is perhaps one of the best organized in the USA.
If there is anything I can do to pave a way to have the Viper be the boat of choice for this wonderful regatta, please don't hesitate to let me know.
Best to you and yours . . . Drew Harper Viper #104 'BoomSlang'
Couple of things...
The 2010 CoC is at Indian Harbor Yacht Club (not nearby Stamford YC).
According to US Sailing, one of the objectives of the event is to "promote the host class". The Ideal exists as a good trainer and club-owned asset. The promotional benefits are limited whereas the Viper would surely benefit.
Jonathan
Quote from: jnye on December 18, 2009, 02:48:58 PM
Couple of things...
The 2010 CoC is at Indian Harbor Yacht Club (not nearby Stamford YC).
According to US Sailing, one of the objectives of the event is to "promote the host class". The Ideal exists as a good trainer and club-owned asset. The promotional benefits are limited whereas the Viper would surely benefit.
Jonathan
That is a great point Jonathan. Why promote (less than) Ideal 18's? Still made yes...still desired? Dunno. It's $25K for one with a kite and trailer. Lotta dough for a very lo-tech leadmine.
Oh yeah..sorry about misnaming the club. There are so many nice YC's on the Sound, just got confused.
The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:
With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.
I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.
The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...
Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!
This is the email i sent.
Dear Sir,
I am the owner of a Viper 640. I was very disappointed to hear the US Sailing had chosen the Ideal 18 as the boat for the 2010 CoC's.
The owners of the Viper Class love our boat and will do anything to get more people in it. It is a much more relevant boat the the Ideal 18 in the current market as well as being much more fun. To make invited sailors sail an Ideal 18 is a disservice to the event itself when there is such a good boat as the Viper waiting in the wings. My boat is currently located in Newport Rhode Island as is one other. I have a very good set of sails which I would let the event use if non were supplied for the event. This is the same for most owners. If you feel inclined to investigate the class please contact our class President Justin Scott who will do his up most to help. From an owner with nothing invested in this event other than his love for his class please take a hard look at the Viper for this event.
Thank you for your time
Great letter Dan....Not sure if we'll make any friends at all, but can I pass this to Scot at SA? I think it's front page material.
Quote from: Dan-T on December 20, 2009, 06:45:26 PM
The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:
With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.
I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.
The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...
Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!
Quote from: BoomSlang on December 21, 2009, 12:33:52 PM
Great letter Dan....Not sure if we'll make any friends at all, but can I pass this to Scot at SA? I think it's front page material.
Quote from: Dan-T on December 20, 2009, 06:45:26 PM
The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:
With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.
I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.
The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...
Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!
Recommend strongly against going the SA route. To me that's all downside with little prospect of an upside. Several letters are in hand and USS seems open to the idea so let's let that play out.
Jonathan
Cant put this stuff on SA.
Its oil and water mate, not really a great mix.
My letter is below. Those who want to weigh in should write to Drew Daugherty (
[email protected]), the US Sailing coordinator and Sam Fortenbaugh (
[email protected]), the event chair for Indian Harbor YC. And if you happen to know Jobson personally, it wouldn't hurt to write to him.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gentlemen,
I know there have been a number of emails and letters circulating advocating the use of the Viper over the Ideal as the boat for the 2010 Championship of Champions. As you know, I am supportive of this idea. Selecting the Viper would be good for the competitors, good for the class and, importantly, good for US Sailing. The Ideal is a low-tech, under-powered trainer something that does not make them a great boat for a championship event. This is versus the more performance oriented aspects of the Viper. Using the Viper and the resulting photos of boats and lots of grinning faces would have a dramatic halo effect for US Sailing.
One key potential concern regarding the Viper... The characteristics that make it a good boat (high performance, modern) could be felt to be unsuited to use by crews unfamiliar with the boat. There is probably an element of truth to this though the Ultimate 20 (a boat a lot closer to the Viper than the Ideal) was used for the CoC some ten or so years ago. One of Indian Harbor?s members qualified and sailed in that year?s finals and without any experience (him or his crew) in a modern sportboat, had a great time. Unlike (say) the Moth, 49er or Aussie skiff, the boat is not so technically nor physically demanding so as to be out of reach of those stepping into it for the first time.
Because the Ideal 18s are club-owned, it will be easy to secure the necessary boats. This was a key element in the decision made over five years ago when Indian Harbor stepped forward to offer to host the CoC regatta. But that was before the Viper came on the scene. There are now about fifteen boats on Long Island Sound with many more within a five hour drive. Being a grass roots organization and given the support of the Viper Class, rustling up the necessary number of boats should not be an issue.
One last point... Despite the low tech nature of the Ideal and the fact that they are identically rigged, it is possible to argue that a fleet of Vipers may prove to be more uniform than the fleet of Ideals. The issue for the Ideals is that being club-owned, they all live in the water. This means boats have different quality finishes below the waterline and depending on how old they are, can weigh significantly more than new boats (given water absorption). The Indian Harbor Ideals will be two years old next fall but some other club boats are likely to be at least five. And sail quality varies. While I can not promise success, if the Viper is selected, we can work on a fleet-wide sail purchase something that would be more difficult with the Ideals in that the club owners have little incentive to purchase new sails.
I am available at your convenience to discuss further should the need arise.
Jonathan
Definitely avoid the SA route of change. Ragging on US sAiling will only alienate them further. If they don't choose the Viper of the Ideal in 2010, who cares? The Vipe is not dependent upon anyone other than ourselves for growth. Respectively approach US sAiling again in 2011, with demo rides, etc. Best we not create our own version of Mr. Clean to agitate for change, cuz it's rarely successful.