2010 Championship of Champions

Drew Harper · December 18, 2009, 03:07:53 PM

Quote from: jnye on December 18, 2009, 02:48:58 PM
Couple of things...

The 2010 CoC is at Indian Harbor Yacht Club (not nearby Stamford YC).

According to US Sailing, one of the objectives of the event is to "promote the host class". The Ideal exists as a good trainer and club-owned asset. The promotional benefits are limited whereas the Viper would surely benefit.

Jonathan

That is a great point Jonathan. Why promote (less than) Ideal 18's? Still made yes...still desired? Dunno. It's $25K for one with a kite and trailer. Lotta dough for a very lo-tech leadmine.

Oh yeah..sorry about misnaming the club. There are so many nice YC's on the Sound, just got confused.

Dan Tucker · December 20, 2009, 06:45:26 PM

The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:

With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.

I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.

The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...

Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!

Matt Sole · December 20, 2009, 08:48:35 PM

This is the email i sent.

Dear Sir,

I am the owner of a Viper 640. I was very disappointed to hear the US Sailing had chosen the Ideal 18 as the boat for the 2010 CoC's.
The owners of the Viper Class love our boat and will do anything to get more people in it. It is a much more relevant boat the the Ideal 18 in the current market as well as being much more fun. To make invited sailors sail an Ideal 18 is a disservice to the event itself when there is such a good boat as the Viper waiting in the wings. My boat is currently located in Newport Rhode Island as is one other. I have a very good set of sails which I would let the event use if non were supplied for the event. This is the same for most owners. If you feel inclined to investigate the class please contact our class President Justin Scott who will do his up most to help. From an owner with nothing invested in this event other than his love for his class please take a hard look at the Viper for this event.

Thank you for your time

Drew Harper · December 21, 2009, 12:33:52 PM

Great letter Dan....Not sure if we'll make any friends at all, but can I pass this to Scot at SA? I think it's front page material.

Quote from: Dan-T on December 20, 2009, 06:45:26 PM
The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:

With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.

I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.

The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...

Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!

Jonathan Nye · December 21, 2009, 02:03:01 PM

Quote from: BoomSlang on December 21, 2009, 12:33:52 PM
Great letter Dan....Not sure if we'll make any friends at all, but can I pass this to Scot at SA? I think it's front page material.

Quote from: Dan-T on December 20, 2009, 06:45:26 PM
The less-than-Ideal 18, is a shitter. I sailed them last year and absolutely hated it. Here's what I sent them, also cc'd to Gary Jobson:

With the 2010 Championship of Champions scheduled to be held at Indian Harbor Yacht Club, I believe it would be a shame to sail it in Ideal 18's rather than Viper 640's. Having sailed as the able-bodied crew on Ideal 18's in last year's Robie Pierce Regatta in Rye, I can assure you that the Viper is FAR more fun to sail. Indian Harbor and Stamford, combined, are one of the largest Viper fleets in the country. As the Viper fleet captain in Marblehead, I will offer my boat and I'm nearly 100% certain I can offer 2-3 additional Vipers. A Newport owner has offered his boat, as have two owners from as far as California. There is no doubt in my mind that we could arrange the boats.The Viper class is grass-roots class, built built and managed by incredibly enthusiastic owners.

I understand that part of the mandate of the CoC is to promote the host class. The Viper 640 is possibly the fastest growing one-design class in the US today. Hosting the CoC would be a wonderful way to promote the class to a wider range of sailors. My understanding is that privately owned Ideal 18's are rather few and far between. And it's hard to believe that the Ideal 18 class is terribly active, when their class rules were last updated in May, 2002 according to the manufacturer's class association webpage.

The Viper class focuses on making performance sailing accessible to all. It is accessible enough that my wife, Paralympic Sailing gold-medalist from Beijing, is racing the Viper with me and our 9 year old daughter in Florida in January! If a paraplegic and a 9 year old can race a Viper, certainly US Champions can! And they should...

Please reconsider the choice of the boat for the 2010 CoC!

Recommend strongly against going the SA route. To me that's all downside with little prospect of an upside. Several letters are in hand and USS seems open to the idea so let's let that play out.
Jonathan

Matt Sole · December 21, 2009, 04:57:54 PM

Cant put this stuff on SA.

Its oil and water mate, not really a great mix.

Jonathan Nye · December 22, 2009, 09:11:08 AM

My letter is below. Those who want to weigh in should write to Drew Daugherty ([email protected]), the US Sailing coordinator and Sam Fortenbaugh ([email protected]), the event chair for Indian Harbor YC. And if you happen to know Jobson personally, it wouldn't hurt to write to him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentlemen,

I know there have been a number of emails and letters circulating advocating the use of the Viper over the Ideal as the boat for the 2010 Championship of Champions. As you know, I am supportive of this idea. Selecting the Viper would be good for the competitors, good for the class and, importantly, good for US Sailing. The Ideal is a low-tech, under-powered trainer something that does not make them a great boat for a championship event. This is versus the more performance oriented aspects of the Viper. Using the Viper and the resulting photos of boats and lots of grinning faces would have a dramatic halo effect for US Sailing.

One key potential concern regarding the Viper... The characteristics that make it a good boat (high performance, modern) could be felt to be unsuited to use by crews unfamiliar with the boat. There is probably an element of truth to this though the Ultimate 20 (a boat a lot closer to the Viper than the Ideal) was used for the CoC some ten or so years ago. One of Indian Harbor?s members qualified and sailed in that year?s finals and without any experience (him or his crew) in a modern sportboat, had a great time. Unlike (say) the Moth, 49er or Aussie skiff, the boat is not so technically nor physically demanding so as to be out of reach of those stepping into it for the first time.

Because the Ideal 18s are club-owned, it will be easy to secure the necessary boats. This was a key element in the decision made over five years ago when Indian Harbor stepped forward to offer to host the CoC regatta. But that was before the Viper came on the scene. There are now about fifteen boats on Long Island Sound with many more within a five hour drive. Being a grass roots organization and given the support of the Viper Class, rustling up the necessary number of boats should not be an issue.

One last point... Despite the low tech nature of the Ideal and the fact that they are identically rigged, it is possible to argue that a fleet of Vipers may prove to be more uniform than the fleet of Ideals. The issue for the Ideals is that being club-owned, they all live in the water. This means boats have different quality finishes below the waterline and depending on how old they are, can weigh significantly more than new boats (given water absorption). The Indian Harbor Ideals will be two years old next fall but some other club boats are likely to be at least five. And sail quality varies. While I can not promise success, if the Viper is selected, we can work on a fleet-wide sail purchase something that would be more difficult with the Ideals in that the club owners have little incentive to purchase new sails.

I am available at your convenience to discuss further should the need arise.

Jonathan

Phillip Davis · December 22, 2009, 10:10:50 AM

Definitely avoid the SA route of change. Ragging on US sAiling will only alienate them further. If they don't choose the Viper of the Ideal in 2010, who cares? The Vipe is not dependent upon anyone other than ourselves for growth. Respectively approach US sAiling again in 2011, with demo rides, etc. Best we not create our own version of Mr. Clean to agitate for change, cuz it's rarely successful.