So I am picking up my new boat in a few weeks and need to buy an outboard. I've owned plenty in the past, and all have pros and cons, but I wanted to hear what the Viper guys and gals are doing.
What outboards work well on the boat?
Two stroke / four stroke?
One cylinder or two?
Nissan, Honda, Merc....?
Vibration and storage position while sailing are key, I don't want to have to tie it up so it doesn't drag when I am doing 15 knts ;) I have the factory outboard bracket. Thanks for all the help in advance!!!
-Scott
Quote from: Scott Ellis on April 22, 2011, 10:32:01 PM
So I am picking up my new boat in a few weeks and need to buy an outboard. I've owned plenty in the past, and all have pros and cons, but I wanted to hear what the Viper guys and gals are doing.
What outboards work well on the boat?
Two stroke / four stroke?
One cylinder or two?
Nissan, Honda, Merc....?
Vibration and storage position while sailing are key, I don't want to have to tie it up so it doesn't drag when I am doing 15 knts ;) I have the factory outboard bracket. Thanks for all the help in advance!!!
-Scott
I've never had a outboard, even in Marbledead, as it doesn't take much breeze to get a Viper moving. If you're going to be planing at 15 knots, you can certainly leave the outboard ashore!
You don't need much to push the boat either, 2-3 HP is plenty, as you'll only use it where there is absolutely NO wind. The Torqueedo electric seems a neat choice. New 2-strokes are all but non-existent I think (other than larger HP direct injected), but are smaller and lighter than 4-strokes.
$880 for a 2.5 fourstroke Tohatsu at internetoutboards.com with free shipping, 42 pounds (same engine as Nissan). Honda makes a 2 HP, fourstroke, aircooled which is unusual, but small and only 27 pounds. Found it for $818 at boats.net. I'd probably go for the Honda for a new one, or check craigslist for a similar sized used twostroke.
Some folks who do carry outboards manage to find a way to secure it under the foredeck while sailing.
Thanks for the input Dan - I agree, but the bad new is that I'll have to have one on and in place for PHRF NW racing. I like the Honda 2hp, looks like the best option and the lightest of the pickings.
-Scott
Hondas are usually rather loud.
Check that out first.
Quote from: Terry Phillips on April 23, 2011, 06:49:53 PM
Hondas are usually rather loud.
Check that out first.
I have one of those Honda 2hp on another boat - bought it 1999 or 2000 and it's still doing fine. It isn't quiet, but the noise is acceptable and not too much out of line with other brands. The best features are the weight, the cleaner running four stroke (not rare any more, but was back then), and the air-cooling, which means no impeller and no water passages to get clogged with salt water.
I also have a tiny very old Yamaha, 2.5 hp I think. Tiny, less noise, more smoke - and much less power when it comes to pushing boats around. Still, it's very, very light weight makes it more ideal for the Viper. Problem is you can't buy them any more.
I use a torqeedo for compliance but that company has lost sight of the market. They include all sorts of dodads that you just don't need....they weight 29 lbs now and cost $2K.
The HUGE advantage is never having to deal with gas and the the ruining effect on gelcoat and sails.
The new Torqeedo's have a built in GPS for range and charge so you know just how much you have left.
If you want one, I can save you $100 on it (my cost). They are VERY low margin items...all outboards are.
I used to have a Honda 2hp. They are great little motors. Make SURE you put a secondary fuel filter on it. Dirt the size of a flea turd will plug the carb.
I picked up a self contained 1.5hp on Craigslist for under $100. Runs like a charm and weighs maybe 20-30 lb.
I haven't tried it on the water yet, but PHRF NE rules require something that will push the boat at the square root of its length on calm smooth water.
I've gone over this issue before. I too am in PHRF NW and required to carry a outboard.
It's pretty hard to find one small enough. I have a 4 cycle water cooled Honda 2hp now. It weighs about 27 lbs and is quiet. There are a few slightly lighter outboards available. Look for:
Evinrude / Johnson 1.5 hp
Yamaha/ Mariner 2 hp (without neutral)
Tohatsu / Nissan 2 - 3.5 hp (without neutral)
Cruise and Carry / Sears Gamefisher / Eska (air cooled)
Unless you go with the air cooled junk, it's hard to get under 25 lbs. There are some interesting weed-wacker conversions out there too. Another option could be a small battery lashed over the keel and a trolling motor.?
Torqeedo BaseTravel 401/801 are on Ebay for $900/1399. They are the same as the old Travel versions but they don't fold up into a bag.
I bought a Travel 801. 24 lbs. Should be adequate to get in and out of slip and emergencies.
As Schoonerman points out, the newer versions have gotten pretty pricey, though they do have more range, bells and whistles.
Thanks everyone, very very helpful. I appreciate it. Now off to Craig's list......
-Scott
Does anyone have photos of what a storage arrangement under the foredeck looks like? Trying to assess options for Year 2 of Life With An Outboard.
I found a used Torqeedo that I hope to strap under the deck as well. I am working on how to do it.
Meantime I found this online. Not sure it has enough power to be practical but would satisfy the phrf requirement. At about 10lbs it is a nice option. At the price, it isn't unless you have a tender that could use it when you weren't sailing. https://www.temofrance.com/en_GB/
That looks interesting however I converted the 450W to HP and it was 0.6.
I also have a Torqeedo and one warning is to make sure the connections stay dry and clean especially if you sail in salt water. One thought one of my crew had was to put the head/batter in a styrofoam cooler.
Quote from: seanbradley05 on February 17, 2021, 07:41:36 AM
I found a used Torqeedo that I hope to strap under the deck as well. I am working on how to do it.
Meantime I found this online. Not sure it has enough power to be practical but would satisfy the phrf requirement. At about 10lbs it is a nice option. At the price, it isn't unless you have a tender that could use it when you weren't sailing. https://www.temofrance.com/en_GB/
Ha. That's all fun and games until you really need the outboard. I don't need it for rating purposes, I need it because out on Shelter Island, there can be 3+ knots worth of tide, and if I am doing PBSA races, an 8-9 mile motor to the starting line that can be upwind the entire way if the seabreeze fills (and against the tide if you're unlucky). So I have a Honda 2.3 hp 4 stroke that weighs 29 pounds, and need to carry a 1 gallon supplemental gas tank in the cockpit locker since the internal tank is only 0.26 gallons, which will only get you about 45 minutes worth of excitement. Issue with the short shaft 2.3 hp Honda is that on starboard tack, even if you mount the engine as close to centerline as possible, and even if you tie the engine up a tiny bit more past the tilt rest point, it can still drag on starboard tack, so I'd love to figure out a better storage solution. I recall the Aussies having worked out some below foredeck solution, but I'd love to see photos of that.
How far does your motor kick up? I havent noticed any problems with mine dragging. I have a Suzuki 2.5 and it kicks up to about a 90 degree angle. Ive thought about making a mold of the engine head, and then mounting it underneath the foredeck, opposite side of the spinnaker sock, so it would just fit into that mold and strap down.
It seems like it may be difficult to unmount and move forward under sail, especially in heavy air. I agree though, would be nice to have it upfront for weight and steering.
Have you had any problems with your motor hitting the transom? My motor mount will flex under load until the engine rests right on the transom. Curious if anyone else has this problem.
My motor does not get to 90 degrees - photo attached.
On the bracket end, we use the stock Rondar bracket, but after hearing about flexing issues from others, I ground off the gelcoat and reinforced it with several layers of carbon (photo attached). We also added delrin spacers between the bracket and the cockpit floor to allow water to drain more easily. Anyhow, no issues with the bracket otherwise.
Peter, the idea of adding a couple spacers to lift the motor mount is something we should all do.
That thing just loves to hold water in the boat.
Check out the last two posts from a really old discussion about spin sock placement in 2014:
http://forum.viper640.org/repairs-maintenance-and-upgrades/spin-sock-placement/msg16060/#msg16060
https://www.viper640.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/fang-upwind.jpg
Spacers are a fantastic idea, will have to try that and the reinforcement.
The Suzuki definitely kicks up higher. Here are a few photos of mine kicked up, and one on starboard tack.
ive recently switched from mercury 2.2 to yamaha 3 ( both 2 strokes) using the standard viper outboard bracket. the merc only swung up to about 75-80 deg. which left it dragging on starboard tack. the yamaha, although slightly heavier, swings up to almost 90, and the system actually lifts it up another few inches due to its arrangement of the pivot pin. at the club i race at, we only have 2 vipers so we get thrown in with the trailer sailer fleet ( racing cat 7) so we have to carry an outboard
The Suzuki 2.5 swings up about 90 and is super cheap and very dependable!
Quote from: brian partridge on March 20, 2021, 05:54:04 PM
ive recently switched from mercury 2.2 to yamaha 3 ( both 2 strokes) using the standard viper outboard bracket. the merc only swung up to about 75-80 deg. which left it dragging on starboard tack. the yamaha, although slightly heavier, swings up to almost 90, and the system actually lifts it up another few inches due to its arrangement of the pivot pin. at the club i race at, we only have 2 vipers so we get thrown in with the trailer sailer fleet ( racing cat 7) so we have to carry an outboard
Who will be the first one to try out this Greenworks electric battery powered motor from Amazon. The posts have people using the motor on 500 lbs fishing boats for 45 min at full power. Could be a cheap alternative to Torqueedo and weighs in at 21 lbs. https://www.amazon.ca/Greenworks-32lbs-Trolling-Motor-Tool/dp/B08NN2GZNW/ref=asc_df_B08NN2GZNW/?tag=googlemobshop-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=477893961571&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14804679935832487528&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001160&hvtargid=pla-1363209487189&psc=1
Might work if you have a very short distance and don't mind slow speeds and no adverse current. As opposed to buying off Amazon I would see if there's a dealer nearby to see if you can try before you buy, otherwise bring paddles!