PHRF Numbers

[Craig Wilusz]

All, I would like to start a thread where we can attatch PHRF documents (ie, results, certificates, and PHRF committee findings).  I think that this type of information if shared in our community can help other owners in other areas.  We can just leave it as an open thread here on this message. 

I am thinking of PHRF results, so that other owners can see how the boats rate against other boats and how thye do against them.  This information can also be used by other boat owners to appeal their rating, provide validation to other PHRF areas about the Viper to "non-openminded commmittess", etc etc.

Copies of certificates can supply information to other owners in other areas with completing their own areas.

PHRF committee findings can be helpful as well.  For example,I recieved a letter form our PHRF area stating that even though hikink devices are not permitted in the GYA nor is hiking for that matter in PHRF.  I do not have to remove the hiking straps from my boat.  This single letter can end a lot of off the water BS at club level PHRF regattas. 

So waht say you, do you want to join in ?

Craig and Deborah
  Viper #100 Ice Melted
Nacra20 #1018 Hoof Hearted

[Olaf Bleck]

Viper #56 has a 99U ("unnofficial") cert from PHRF New England.  It's not totally clear why they won't rate a viper as "official", but politics is what it comes down to. The establishment doesn't like sport boats here.   What it means is that I can't race her in any PHRF NE sanctioned official regatta's, which basically means the PHRF NE Championships.

The Viper meets all the requirements though, which are:

- Motor (yes, I have one, 1.75HP self contained, goes on a bolt-on motor mount)  
- Carry anchor, throwout line, etc (ISAF/ORC Category 5 inshore ocean racing requirements).

A motor is the only PHRF NE equipment rule I could find in their bylaws.  It must be able to push the boat in knots at the square root of the length in ft, in flat calm water.

Also, must meet whatever ORC rules the organizers require, which around here is Cat 5.

I'll scan the cert sometime if I can find it...

We sailed Buzzard's Bay Regatta in about 20knts 4-6ft seas, as the scratch boat in B Class.  We scored one bullet and had a lot of potential.  Surprisingly, we were fast upwind when we weren't sinking (we were taking on A LOT of water in the heavy seas).  We finished mid-fleet all said and done, but next time we'll know what we're doing there.  

Copy of my PHRF cert attached.

Also, more on the subject in this other thread:   http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=476.0

[Jason Hyerstay]

Here on Lake Champlain, the Viper got a rating of 102. Our competition includes J/92s (96), J/92 (105), J/29 (108-117), J/80 (117-120), Melges 20 (108), and when not OD racing, Etchells (126). I do the class splits at our club and we have four spin classes: Etchells, Spin A (heavy, faster keelboats with furniture, including J/109, B36.7, C&C 99, Pearson 37, etc.), Spin B (lighter boats listed above, including Viper), and Spin C (heavier or slower boats PHRF 120ish and above, like older Tartans, C&Cs and Beneteaus).

The key to fair PHRF in my opinion, is separating the heavier sticky boats from the lighter boats, even with overlapping PHRF numbers, especially if you have a lot of light wind days. Since we went to this class split format (checked and updated every year), participation and satisfaction have gone up for everybody. Since we are doing this separately from the PHRF committee, there doesn't feel like there are any politics in it.

Thanks to the Solings and Etchells on the Lake, we don't have any restrictions about hiking and lifelines.

We still have a lot of learning to do, but we feel pretty good in our class. I hate giving time to a J/92, but we can beat some of the J/29s.

Cheers,

Jason

FYI to folks in other areas, PHRF New England doesn't actually control all of New England. Lake Champlain PHRF is totally independent.

[Zach Freeborn]

PHRF-Narragansett Bay Rates the Viper at 105.  PHRF-NB may be the most open minded committee around as they don't require engines, lifelines, or any bow or stern rails, and they will give just about any boat a rating.  Here are some results:


http://newportsportboats.com/2010-results/
http://www.jyc.org/RaceRslts/RaceRslts.htm

[Drew Harper]

NorCal rating for Viper is 96. Fine in conditions from 15-20. Our nemesis is the Olson 30 at 99. We sail with them upwind provided it's not too lumpy. Once the wind hits 22 they will plane downwind and they kill us. Any less breeze and we sail long gybes off their transom for a bit and final edge onto their bow and we're gone.

[Justin Scott]

Great idea Craig!

Also, dont forget there is a portion of the web site dedicated to PHRF and handicap racing here.................... http://www.viper640.org/the-viper-640/handicap-information

It would be great to have someone help keep this up to date.

The Viper has always embraced both handicap and one design racing, so if a group of y'all can think of ways the class can help support our PHRF participants let me know and we will make sure you have an active voice in  the class .

Olaf.....in NE we got a 99 in Marblehead as a courtesy racing a long time ago so we could participate in Wednesday nights. We are not allowed to participate in the PHRF New Englands because we dont have a head. We are cool with that, because its fun to help out with RC or crew for friends on that weekend. It reinforced our rap as "nice guys". But it has crossed my mind to lash the porta potty from my seasprite on top of the keel.....just for giggles.

[Justin Scott]

I recieved a letter form our PHRF area stating that even though hikink devices are not permitted in the GYA nor is hiking for that matter in PHRF.  I do not have to remove the hiking straps from my boat. Craig and Deborah
 

Interestingly we agreed with a group of PHRF measurers that we would list in our recommended SIs for handicap events that all crew have both feet in hiking straps if body extended ourside sheer line...or something like that. It helped Chesapeake allow us to participate without life lines.

[Olaf Bleck]

Olaf.....in NE we got a 99 in Marblehead as a courtesy racing a long time ago so we could participate in Wednesday nights. We are not allowed to participate in the PHRF New Englands because we dont have a head. We are cool with that, because its fun to help out with RC or crew for friends on that weekend. It reinforced our rap as "nice guys". But it has crossed my mind to lash the porta potty from my seasprite on top of the keel.....just for giggles.

Hey Justin,

If you read the PHRF NE bylaws, the only thing required is a *motor*.   They are full of sh-t.  They just don't want small sport boats racing PHRF.  The word "head" does not appear anywhere, except when followed by the word "sail".

In fact, here is the only spelled out requirement that doesn't deal with sails and such:

http://www.phrfne.org/page/about_phrf/bylaws

8.11
4. outboard engine, or inboard engine with folding prop, or where appropriate, inboard engine with two-blade solid prop in aperture; auxiliary power, sufficient to propel the boat in calm water at a speed no less than the square root of the waterline length in knots, is mandatory;

I have a 1.75hp self contained motor/tank.

Comes out to 4.5knts on a flat.

CHECK


Various other snippets:

In the preamble:

PHRF-New England (PHRF-NE) handicaps are boat performance handicaps. They are based on the speed potential of the boat, based as far as possible on observations of previous racing experience. It is the intent of PHRF-NE handicapping that any well-equipped, well-maintained, and well-sailed boat has a good chance to win; and that any boat that wins a PHRF-NE race is indeed well- equipped, well-maintained, and well-sailed.

CHECK

8.1.1 Only single hulled cruiser/racer boats will be issued official handicap certificates..

CHECK

8.8 The Executive Board, subject to instructions received from the Board of Governors at the annual meeting, shall provide criteria for the eligibility of yachts for handicaps. In applying such criteria, a Fleet Handicapper may reject the application of any yacht he considers not eligible, subject to appeal to the Handicapping Committee.

OOOOPS!   How about that: the Fleet Handicapper can reject anyone he wants.

I'll appeal if there's a race that I want to enter and that won't accept my unofficial certificate.  Buzzards Bay for one WILL accept it.  For PHRF NE, I'm usually sailing on a Henderson 30, which is a proportionally bigger Viper.  (i.e. about 3x worth of boat).  Racing at Tinkers, whatever...

[Jeff Jones]

My history may be a little fuzzy but it is my understanding that the Viper was given a provisional rating of 96 several years ago.  (Austin Texas, AYC)    Early last year the rating was appealed and changed to 102.   Felipe Payet led the appeal and presented a substantial amount of data relevant to the boat?s performance VS the rest of the fleet over the previous few years.   

I might see if he could chime in on this discussion.   

We carry a 96 on Galveston Bay, which is dead even with a Melges 24.

[Justin Scott]

My history may be a little fuzzy but it is my understanding that the Viper was given a provisional rating of 96 several years ago.  (Austin Texas, AYC)    Early last year the rating was appealed and changed to 102.   Felipe Payet led the appeal and presented a substantial amount of data relevant to the boat?s performance VS the rest of the fleet over the previous few years.   

I might see if he could chime in on this discussion.   

We carry a 96 on Galveston Bay, which is dead even with a Melges 24.

Thats absurd to carry dead even with a Melges 24. We realized that the M24 would make an excellent benchmark for the Viper. So we studied the relative handicap numbers in areas where both classes are actively raced PHRF and came up with an average difference. It is published on the handicap section of with the website. Steer your local measurere to it. I have raced right alongside Melges 24s at several regattas and I can assure you that in 85% of conditions they owe us time.

[Justin Scott]

The head is not a requirement for PHRF New England rating.

It was a requirement to sail in the PHRF New England Championships held in Marblehead at end of August. I had a PHRF cert'. I applied to enter and I was called by Bump Wilcox who told me they required a head to preserve the character of that regatta. I said that I was cool with that and got a ride on Rob's Swan instead. 

Ironically, we peed over the side all day. The head wasnt used once. But I think their main point is that they want  to keep some semblance of a Racer/Cruiser regatta. That's okay with me. I accept that the Viper is a very different boat from most boats that sail in that regatta. There are lots of different ways to have fun in sailing boats and I dont want to spoil their fun. The PHRF guys are very welcoming to Vipers at other events in NE.

If we asked for a sport boat start at the PHRF NEs and could get together enough interest they would rpobably welcome us. Although I admit, I kinda like sailing on OPB s once in a while.   

[Olaf Bleck]

The head is not a requirement for PHRF New England rating.

It was a requirement to sail in the PHRF New England Championships held in Marblehead at end of August. I had a PHRF cert'. I applied to enter and I was called by Bump Wilcox who told me they required a head to preserve the character of that regatta. I said that I was cool with that and got a ride on Rob's Swan instead.  

Ironically, we peed over the side all day. The head wasnt used once. But I think their main point is that they want  to keep some semblance of a Racer/Cruiser regatta. That's okay with me. I accept that the Viper is a very different boat from most boats that sail in that regatta. There are lots of different ways to have fun in sailing boats and I dont want to spoil their fun. The PHRF guys are very welcoming to Vipers at other events in NE.

If we asked for a sport boat start at the PHRF NEs and could get together enough interest they would probably welcome us. Although I admit, I kinda like sailing on OPB s once in a while.  

Sounds plausible for the PHRF NE's.   You're right in that a certain curmudgeonry is interested in precisely that, i.e. ONLY racer/cruisers.  I agree: what PHRF needs to do is introduce a sport boat class, since the M24's, M32's, Hendo's, and a few other sport boats frankly aren't apples-to-apples with the displacement hulls either.  Put all the planing hulls with asym's on one line and it'll be a moderately fair race.   IMHO.  I don't think that a certain few would  in the management would "welcome" it though.

That said, there are definitely regattas such as BBR that didn't have a problem with having us.  Some of the lead sleds in B Fleet weren't pleased however.  We were scratch boat at 99, zipping around on the line creating mayhem, and flying past the symmetrical lead sleds in 20knots.  At least there wasn't one person on a rail that didn't want to be on my boat.... LOL

[Craig Wilusz]

Gulf Yachting Association PHRF.  Melges 24 rates 96 in GYA

[Craig Wilusz]

Gulf Yachting Association Letter approving hiking straps allowed on boat.  However, note that in the Gulf Yachting Association hiking straps or hiking devices are not permitted.  This letter was to approve the hiking straps to not be required to be removed for PHRF racing.

[Craig Wilusz]

Rough Data spread sheet for PHRF differences in Viper 640 and Melges 24.  Compilied in 2010