options for not cleating the mainshet

[Doug Stumberger]

So, I come to this boat from the Thistle, which has a big main that we vang-sheet. A lot of sailors in that class, including me, have gotten rid of their mainsheet cleat and play the mainsheet continuously upwind in the puffs. I'd like to do the same in the viper, but the class rules specify that I need a swivel arm & cleat mounted not more than 5cm above the deck as supplied by builder, which is the Harken. If I switched to the Ronstan RF7 i could adjust the arm height so that the sheet didn't auto-cleat every time I pull it in, but the mounting holes are different and it's not clear to me that switching to the RF7 would violate class rules.  Any thoughts on this? Anybody else not cleating upwind? Any options for getting rid of the cleat or moving to the RF7 to get the non-cleating arm angle?  Thanks! Doug Stumberger #174

[Terry Phillips]

1- Tape the jaws of the cleat open.
2- Or put a piece of something in the jaws to fill them.
That way they are always available should you need them.

[Peter Beardsley]

Or rig the mainsheet through the block away from the cleat -- i.e., turn the swivel 180 degrees, rig the mainsheet through as you would normally, and then there's no option for putting the sheet in the cleat (and then tape the jaws shut so that nothing gets in there at the wrong time). 

That said, I think there will be times on the Viper when you want to use the mainsheet cleat, but maybe not.  I sail in a couple of other classes without cleats and find myself cleating the main on the Viper from time to time. 

[Dave Nickerson]

Doug - another option might be to change the size or brand of block on the swivel cam to change the line height going to the cleat so it doesnt' autocleat.  The rule gives you lattitue there if you want it.  That block could be a regular block and not a ratchet. Instead, try hanging an autoratchet from the boom in the last part of the purchase before the swivel cam - we think it works well there - you get more holding power.

[Matt Sole]

You can change to the RF7. The rules allow you to replace hardware with comparable to what comes as spec on the boat. In fact earlier Rondar boats such as mine came with Ronstan kit as standard.

[Ben Steinberg]

You've all got it wrong. Unbolt the cleat, turn it around, then bolt it back on.

[Doug Stumberger]

You can change to the RF7. The rules allow you to replace hardware with comparable to what comes as spec on the boat. In fact earlier Rondar boats such as mine came with Ronstan kit as standard.

So then my question is -- how best to replace the harken cleat base with the RF7, since the harken uses a 3/4" hole spacing and the Ronstan something like 1 1/4".  I was hoping not to have to drill new holes in the (new) boat... how difficult to replace the mounting base that's already there with the RF7??

[Darren Gilbert]

I've got a few broken cleats you can have that don't work 'worth a shit'.  That could work!

On a side note, I don't even know why I keep broken hardware...I guess just for these occasions.

[Lee Shuckerow]

I've gotta say your way more hard core than the rest of us. We generally cleat and unclear in puffs. I don't feel the gnav system is as rigid as a gang setup. I.e. when you release mainsheet gnav forces the mast forward bending the mast forward and then slackens forestay tension.

In the breeze and dive through the smaller puffs. In bigger puffs we try to release jib sheet a little And that usually gets the job done.

I'm interested to see how it works. Good luck.

[Jeff Jones]

i'm with shuck.  besides, hard enough to get my crew to open my beer..    asking them to hold it while i trim;  not going to happen. 

[Doug Stumberger]

I've gotta say your way more hard core than the rest of us. We generally cleat and unclear in puffs. I don't feel the gnav system is as rigid as a gang setup. I.e. when you release mainsheet gnav forces the mast forward bending the mast forward and then slackens forestay tension.

In the breeze and dive through the smaller puffs. In bigger puffs we try to release jib sheet a little And that usually gets the job done.

I'm interested to see how it works. Good luck.

sounds funny, but I think cleating and uncleating is kind of more work in the end.  -- puff comes on, if you're not cleated you just let the sheet pull out of your hands a bit to keep the boat flat. with the sheet cleated, it loads up in the cleat before you uncleat it, takes more effort. and sheeting in is the same effort. so it's really just about holding the live sheet instead of cleated, and with the vang on hard it's not much pressure.  anyway, different style I guess.

Appreciate all the suggestions and comments -- you guys are helpful!

[Justin Scott]

I frequently sail without cleat in big breeze. Admittedly, I'm a lot more manly than the girlie monkeys from Texas.   

Easy to do - no screwdrivers involved. Two choices:-

1. Run it thru the block on the the  swivel mount but dont go thru the cleat.
2. Play mainsheet from the boom. To do this, move the ratchet block to the boom. You are only allowed one ratchet block in the system, but it can go anywhere. 

[Jeff Jones]

helps to recover from a big crash several hundred yards before the finish line

oh, now i get it...