Entry Fees

[TicTacUFO]

Is it just me, or are the entry fees at Viper events unusually high?
Winter Series at SYC is $175 per weekend per boat. 20 boats is $3,500 to run 6 races. They can't spend more than $500 in gas. Why so expensive? Other regattas at the club are a fraction of this. Judy Wynne Regatta Viper entry fee was $70 & at Sugar Bowl there was no entry fee. SYC is a wealthy club with long history of hosting regattas for the betterment of the sport & not to make a profit. Am I missing something? To sail in the series & Worlds you will spend $1400 just in entry fees.
The club will make 14k on entry fees for the Winter Series if they average 20 boats & spend 2k at most on gas for committee boat & a few mark set boats. Does the Viper class require clubs to fly people in from Australia or England for it to be an official Viper regatta? What gives?

[Fletcher]

I can't speak for SYC, but as someone who organizes regattas, the food we serve to hungry sailors post racing is where almost all of the entry fees go. For example a halfway decent club dinner one night is around $40/head x 3 crew = $120. We also feed 10 or so RC volunteers.

Worlds is a different beast with the requirements needed to call it a Worlds - international Jury etc.

[Peter Beardsley]

Class doesn't set the budget for individual regattas - that is up to the host club and the event chair.  Can't tell you why the entry fees are what they are for the SYC winter series - that would need to be taken up with someone at SYC.  Last year in Sarasota I believe it was around $150 per winter series regatta. 

[TicTacUFO]

I totally understand regattas cost money to run. I'm just concerned a precedent has been set to charge unnecessarily high entry fees for Viper regattas.

If this was a weekend Laser, J22, or J-24 regatta, there is no way SYC charges $175.

Love SYC, Love Vipers' and the people that sail them. I just couldn't help notice the entry fee seemed unusual for a weekend regatta that didn't include anything other than a keg after Saturday's sailing.

[Justin S]

The Viper WACC  (Full name: Women's Atlantic Coast Championship - United in the Race to Preserve the World's Oceans) had an entry fee of $80 per boat

This entry fee included 2 days of racing, photography, race entry on yacht scoring,  limitless cocktails at a cocktail party on Saturday, one Nalgene water bottle per competitor (4 per boat) with event logo, live music at the cocktail party, prosecco, wine and beer over dinner .... on behalf of the competitors we supplied gourmet lunches to everyone on Race Committee and the photographers to thank them for their time... and the awards were custom Helly Hansen pastel blue one-off sailing duffle bags embroidered with the event logo + 2 perpetual trophies.

The Entry fee did not include the three course dinner which was available at $35 per head. Beer and wine included.

We made a surplus on the event of just under $200 , topped it up to $250 and donated that to Sailors for the Sea, The Maritime Aquarium Turtle preservation research project and our very own Darien Nature Center.

I have the budget in front of me. Notable items include:
1. The Nalgene water bottles were the high quality wide mouth high-performance BPA/BPS-free "Sustain" bottles (50% of the plastic is recycled).  These are the best water bottles that you can buy for sailing on the planet period! Including the logo and a custom fun color/lid combination they cost us just over $20 per bottle and they will last forever as a reminder of the event.  Since the entry fee was $80, and each team received $80 of bottles....everything else was free.
2. Alcohol was the next biggest expense. We chose not to close the bar. For some reason (Well Mary Ewenson and Vice Commodore Katie Mitchell are some of the reason) Viper women event parties are THE BEST and we didnt close up until 2 am.
3. Trophies and awards are the next expense.  I dont like to give pickle dishes. We like to give something that is useful and will be an amazing memento.  I also like to recognize achievements that go beyond the podium. So "Drey and the Hollies" may not have won the event but the regatta would not have been the same without them so they got an award and a standing ovation.
4. Feeding and saying thank you to a 10 person volunteer Race Committee, a three person protest committee and two professional photographers may not sound like much but over the course of 2 days, it costs more than the band .
5. People remember 2 things about a regatta party : The booze and the Music.  Im happy with the music but I dont think it was memorable. I will do better in 2024. I have longer to line things up...and it will be memorable. We have some iconic musicians in the neighborhood - this is a great cause - Cindi Lauper is helping me line up a band.
6. The rest of the stuff is small individually but it adds up. Yachtscoring is $10 per boat , permits, bar staff , shipping etc etc.

The most noticeable area where we saved money was an all- volunteer RC and all-volunteer judges. The moment you start flying in and providing hotel accommodation for IJs and professional PROs you are draining the party budget.  The Viper is officially a World Sailing International Class.  We hope that the Class will allow us to designate 2024 as a Womens World Championship because we have competitors coming from Germany, Spain , UK, South Africa and Jamaica. This will mean some vigorous discussion between your truly and the WS Technical Committee. Im not throwing a judges junket, Im throwing a Womens Viper regatta. 

SO DOES THE VIPER CLASS THROW SOME GREAT VALUE EVENTS?  I dunno, you tell me.
   

[Justin S]

The Entry Fee at this year's North American Championship hosted by Gulfport was a mere $550 per boat. 

Let us look at what this included:

All the onshore facilities you could possibly imagine for 5 days . Drysailing space, two hoists, marina slips, hoses and water, covered areas to store sails etc etc.  I delivered a boat to Annapolis in the week before the NA'S and one could not walk out of a marina-boatyard after a day for less than $500.

Four days of racing with a superb RC

A judging panel chaired by Shannon Bush. Easily one of the most preeminent judges in the nation

Full breakfast for every competitor....full means eggs, bacon, sausage and (yup) grits......every morning. That in itself saved my team $160.

An full sit down event dinner on Saturday.  Fletch is right about regatta dinners (budget on $40 per head)

Buffet refreshment/dinner on Thursday and during prize giving on Sunday. Hey it included red beans and gumbo.

4 cool T shirts

Awards........ Sadly I cannot say much about the awards because we didnt sail well enough to come close to that table :( But those who won awards tell me they were great :)

But... most valuable of all, hard to put a price on, we got Sam Vasquez and the warmest welcome from a yacht club you could ever hope for.

That was the best $550 that I spent in October and Thank You Gulfport!

 

[Justin S]

And if you are really looking for value?   Look no further than the Boothbay Harbor Viper regatta.  They have really given the middle finger to inflation.

[Peter Beardsley]

WACCs in 2022 had a sponsor I believe.  Having other sources of revenue is a big factor for event chairs being able to keep entry fees down.  I've been chiming in on the NOYC Forums about this - no need for me to repeat all points here from there, but for those who are curious: https://archive.noyc.org/cgi-bin/bbs61xx/webbbs_config.pl?page=1;md=read;id=97112

[Justin S]

I have read the NOYC thread and I am a member of that forum but I'm going to comment here.  I find it easier to follow the topics on the Viper forums....and if we have a secret sauce for successful events I would rather share the recipe with Viper enthusiasts.

I am going to start by reprinting two of Peter's posts on the NOYC thread because when it comes to promoting events he is a Michelin 3 star chef. Then I will add some of my own thoughts about pricing and costs. 

[Justin S]

Peter Post # 1:



Responding to this question: "Any suggestions on how to get more Gulf area Viper sailors to sail in Gulf area events like SYC is hosting? Also thoughts on participation is a result of price, product and promotion. What to do to increase participation?"

I don't know enough yet about what makes Viper sailors in the Gulf tick. I can share things that have worked for when I've been fleet captain / event chair for successful fleets/events. None of this is rocket science, but it does take a fair amount of legwork:

1. Individual communication - whether phone, in-person meeting, or personalized emails. You need to know what makes someone tick - what are their motivations for sailing and what are their obstacles.

This is a really important point that Peter makes. If you are going to host a successful event. You have to allocate time or somebody to this. See Peter's point #3. Blast emails, facebook and the forums make sailors aware of an event....but sign-up and early sign up often needs something a bit more direct. When I am hosting an event, I literally have a spread sheet listing everyone who I think will enjoy the event and who should be reaching out to them if they dont sign up. It is only then we can help solve hurdles that Peter gives examples of in #2 below.   

2. Remove the easy obstacles to sailing. When someone says they can't sail, reasons often boil down to the following. Some of them are fixable by a motivated fleet captain / event chair, some are not. Annotations below:

a. I don't have crew (EASY FIX - just need to know that in advance - we can help find crew)
b. Something on my boat is broken (OFTEN AN EASY FIX - folks have spares usually and can share knowledge to help put it back together - also requires advance notice)
c. I am frustrated that I don't do better at these events (EASY FIX - you need to show up though. We can find a more experienced sailor to jump in, do clinics / practice, have certain people tune up with you before / between races, and have post-race debriefs - we've done all of these things before and it's one of the main reasons people like showing up to these events, even if they are unlikely to finish on the podium)
d. These events are too expensive and money is tight (HARDER FIX but the conversation is helpful for event chairs to know how many people fall into this camp for future planning. Viper sailors are not fancy and it's the least spendy of the sportboat classes due to not paying crew, sail purchase limits, affordable used boats, etc., but sailing costs money. There are times we've helped people find inexpensive used sails / donated sails, helped set program goals for regattas to prioritize based on limited time/budgets, etc., but the feedback is very useful)
e. I / my team doesn't have time since work is really hectic (HARD FIX - do what you need to do there - sailing comes second and you need to pay the bills to be able to sail. The gutting of leisure time has been the main contributing factor in my opinion to the decline in sailing participation over the past 33 years)
f. Someone on our team / family is ill (HARDEST FIX - thoughts and prayers. Health and family come first).

3. Get the low hanging fruit to sign up first. Entries beget entries. People like signing up for events where a lot of other people have signed up early and often so they avoid FOMO when it turns out to be a large regatta.

Again. Absolutely agree.   I start off with a pre-registration sign up list. This can be 4 to 10, depending on the event, that we talk to before the NOR is posted on Yacht Scoring. Once I think I have my early momentum teams lined up then I give them a heads up, open registration and try and get a "first wave" signed up in the first week. Racing sailors are by nature a little competitive and there is a hard core who want to be first to sign up, first on the race course and first to finish. You know who you are! 
There is also another important lesson here. If you are finding it hard to line up your pre-registration candidates then you might have something wrong with the formula for your event. It might be on the wrong date. It might have the wrong entry fee. It might be missing a "hook".  There is at least one Viper event that y'all never heard of and never saw the light of day because the pre-registration interest wasn't there.  Preregistration is the canary in the coal mine. If it falls off the perch before you even post the NOR, then there is something wrong.
The first wave of sign ups begets a second wave and then the momentum is underway. FOMO is a real thing.

4. To get people to sign up early, go back to # 1. It'd be nice if everyone signed up as soon as you send a blast email, but sadly for me and my free time, it rarely works that way. But I'd love to see that change.

Heed these words of advice.It can also be fun. You are reaching out to friends.

5. Once you have a lot of entries, stay organized, know who your fence sitters are, and follow-up with them regularly.

[Justin S]

Peter Post # 2



East Coast Viper sailor here.

We'd love to be sailing against more GYA sailors in Vipers, both in Gulf Coast events and elsewhere. But especially in Gulf Coast events.

At Ft. Walton YC in 2017 we had our largest turnout for a Viper regatta ever - 54 teams at the NAs. 24 of those were GYA entries. And there are A LOT more Vipers in the GYA now.

2022 NAs at Gulfport: only 15 GYA entries

2023 Worlds in March at SYC: so far only 6 GYA entries.

Travelers want to see a lot of boats signed up before committing. Local teams are the easiest teams usually to get to commit. So we're bummed - we all like large regattas - it's a better party and we want to make new friends, not just see the same old folks.

"Worlds" is a misnomer (although allegedly there are some Australian and British teams planning to sign up shortly) - it's just another Viper regatta. No one should be intimidated by the regatta title. We do daily debriefs post racing with open Q&A. Clinics. Lots of chances to share notes with other Viper sailors and get better. The winter series is a great way to get in some practice. Please sign up early and often for these regattas. If you need crew, email me - we can help find folks if I have enough notice, some of whom may be (very) experienced Viper sailors who are willing to fly in and help out if there's a new team wanting to get up to speed.

I have highlighted Peter's points that I want to echo:

Its a mistake for local sailors to think they can leave sign up to the last minute. Travellers get attracted to larger events. If locals sign up too late, then its too late for travellers to make travel plans.

If you need good crew, reach out. In fact attending events like these can be a great learning opportunity because you are more likely to find a really great crew who will help lift your program at these events than run of the mill local club events. We can arrange for truly excellent crew and you dont have to worry if you are not a podium contender. Quite honestly, the best sailors will tell you that if they are not racing with their regular program it is a lot of fun to help a new comer to the fleet or a team that needs some coaching. Its a vacation!

[Justin S]

On Entry Fees:

The main pull for travellers will be quality of event and how many boats are expected. They are relatively price inelastic. Price is rarely the hook....amazing value is enticing....but the attendance numbers must be there.

For Local sailors, entry fees can be a tipping point.  $95 makes it no big deal to show up and have some fun. Without the local sign up, its hard to get the travellers.

Keep it Simple. A good race committee, a club bar and maybe some restaurant recommendations where Viperers can congregate can produce a great weekend of racing. Once people start showing up, they will bring their own oysters!