Viper 640 Class Association Forums

Viper 640 Public Forums => Viper Discussions => Topic started by: Mark Hinrichs on November 22, 2010, 03:04:35 PM

Title: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Mark Hinrichs on November 22, 2010, 03:04:35 PM
Well I did it, t-boned Timbo at the top mark yesterday.. all my fault.  We put a pretty good hole in his Viper, and shattered the tip of my prod. Collossal oops.. Sorry Tim..

I have hull #64, and it was rigged with the tack line running through a hole in the side of the prod an inch or so back from the tip. The line also then runs back out, through another hole opposite to the first and from there down to the bow U-bolt fitting. The tube shattered, but just back to where the holes in the sides of the prod were.  I can clean it up square and fit a cap to it like the newer boats.  Question: Are the tube sections the same between the two styles?

If they are, I can change to the "out the end" single line rig, right?  If I can, I am pretty sure that I can still get the full 190 centimeters.

Thanks in advance for your help...

Mark...
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Jeff Jones on November 22, 2010, 03:15:54 PM
I repaired the tip of #60's pole.  Pretty easy to take it out of the boat, you could do so and take it to a local shop.

I just prepped and wrapped the tip with carbon.  Re-installed the plastic bushings and it was done.  Quick and easy...  you could do it yourself.
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Dave Nickerson on November 22, 2010, 05:24:30 PM
Paul Zimmerman is best to answer this, but if you are going through the pole with 2 bushings and supporting it with a line to the bow eye strap, you have the older smaller diameter pole.  My understanding is that section is not strong enough to convert to "out the end".  The "out the end" poles are a bigger section.  Good luck with the repair.
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Kelly Bechard on November 22, 2010, 07:58:38 PM
The spinnaker pole on the boats with the bow eye and line is different than the ones without the bow eye.

On the older boats it is a carbon tube 8'8" long, 2" diameter and 0.0984 inches (2.5mm) thick. I haven't figured out who makes a carbon tube those dimensions yet. Offshore Spars in Michigan can do a 1.75" tube and bring it up to 2" with an overlay.
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Darren Gilbert on November 22, 2010, 09:10:08 PM
As an older boat owner, I'm curious, is it possible just to swap out an old pole for a new pole?  If not, what is preventing this from happening?
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Ben Steinberg on November 22, 2010, 09:17:37 PM
new style pole is a larger diameter. 
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Olaf Bleck on November 23, 2010, 08:49:52 AM
Quote from: Ben Steinberg on November 22, 2010, 09:17:37 PM

Quote from: Darren Gilbert on November 22, 2010, 09:10:08 PM
As an older boat owner, I'm curious, is it possible just to swap out an old pole for a new pole?  If not, what is preventing this from happening?

new style pole is a larger diameter. 

Put another way, it probably could be done but it would require installation of a new bow sprit "bearing", i.e. the fiberglass piece bonded into the bow through which the pole protrudes.  It would need to match the new pole diameter.

I imagine--having seen one cracked somewhat loose when I got t-boned--that this piece can be removed and a new one fitted in. 

I'm not sure how long it would take to get one from Rondar, but obviously you could build your own.


Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Dan Tucker on November 23, 2010, 03:25:21 PM
Forespar has told me they can make a new pole for the old boats. I spoke with them about it at Strictly Sail Pacific last year. Contact Bill Mosher billm at forespar.com C: 414.688.9979
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: David Morse on November 23, 2010, 07:23:34 PM
I agree with the Forespar approach.  I have had excellent luck with them in the past.

Oh and your starboard tack boatspeed this past weekend was wicked.  You guys rolled right over my overpowered booty.
Good luck with the fix.
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Drew Harper on November 24, 2010, 12:33:30 PM
Mark,

You owe me another bottle of A?ejo :-)
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Mark Hinrichs on November 27, 2010, 10:05:20 PM
OK, got it fixed, learned a few things..

I own #64, and  it has the old sprit..   Guess what... my pole was almost a foot longer than it needed to be..
So... I could have just cut off the fractured part, and "no harm no foul", moved along... But no,that would have been too easy, so I had my first experience with carbon fiber layup... 

It's all good...  just another bump in the road...

Mark
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Brian Bennett on November 30, 2010, 06:38:06 AM
FYI, the original manufacturer, Fiberspar (Whareham, MA (508)  291 2770 could likely provide a well priced option for older boats. It would be possible to do away with the retracting sprit line if the laminates are increased. I am happy to investigate further for those who would like to consider this mod. A group order would be required as they are a production Windsurfer mast outfit (10 units min.), but the price would be pretty good on this basis.

Regards,

Brian Bennett
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Jay Harrell on November 30, 2010, 07:26:05 AM
An option to do away with the nearly irreplaceable bow eye would be VERY welcome!  On my boat, the bow eye is already suspect and the pole was apparently broken and repaired by a previous owner - it's all holding up so far, but...


Quote from: Brian Bennett on November 30, 2010, 06:38:06 AM
FYI, the original manufacturer, Fiberspar (Whareham, MA (508)  291 2770 could likely provide a well priced option for older boats. It would be possible to do away with the retracting sprit line if the laminates are increased. I am happy to investigate further for those who would like to consider this mod. A group order would be required as they are a production Windsurfer mast outfit (10 units min.), but the price would be pretty good on this basis.

Regards,

Brian Bennett
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Dave Nickerson on November 30, 2010, 09:45:41 AM
Brian - this could make a lot of sense.  Do you feel that the bend characteristics of the larger diameter sprit could be duplicated?  These sprits are all holding up really well, but accidents do happen.  And Jay's right, that bow eye is very difficult to repair.  It would be good to have some spares around, but owners would likely have to fund them. 

If you're willing, please investigate further.  The Tech Comm would want a chance to review the proposed section, but that should be straight forward.  Guessing the hard part will be seeing if there is enough interest to support a group purchase.  We'd probably be interested.


Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Dan Tucker on November 30, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
Am I the only one who likes the sprit line to the bow eye? I know it's difficult to repair if ever needed, but I like how the pole height stays fixed and the pole doesn't bend under load.

How cheap would it be to have Fiberspar make up a batch? 10 poles is nearly 20% of the original boats, would we find enough owners who would want a spare? I'd like one , if the cost is reasonable (>$200??). Sounds like there might be 3 already.

Nice to see you active here again Brian! Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Greg Jackson on November 30, 2010, 03:30:42 PM
I'd be interested in a spare as well...
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Ben Steinberg on November 30, 2010, 04:32:45 PM
  Money talks... I highly doubt they could be anywhere close to $200.  The cost of the materials plus the consumables needed to make them might be $200 though at manufacturers cost.  Be interested to find out what they would cost.  I'd like it a few inches longer so the tack line could actually limit the fully extended length instead of the pole out tackle jamming against the bulkhead. 
  Can someone with a new boat and a set of calipers measure the wall thickness and diameter of their sprit.  MM or thousands of inches please. 
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Tim Carter on November 30, 2010, 04:48:41 PM
with all of the talk about breaking the old style bobstay eye.....  If that were to happen, could you not just drill a hole athwartships at that location, fill it with bog and then run your spectra to the hole.  Done that way all the time in skiff types, surly not a advantage in any way, but a fairly simple remedy....  ???
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Ben Steinberg on November 30, 2010, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: Tim Carter on November 30, 2010, 04:48:41 PM
with all of the talk about breaking the old style bobstay eye.....  If that were to happen, could you not just drill a hole athwartships at that location, fill it with bog and then run your spectra to the hole.  Done that way all the time in skiff types, surly not a advantage in any way, but a fairly simple remedy....  ???
drill two intersecting holes into said bog, put a pin through it.  
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Dan Tucker on December 01, 2010, 10:50:28 AM
Quote from: Tim Carter on November 30, 2010, 04:48:41 PM
with all of the talk about breaking the old style bobstay eye.....  If that were to happen, could you not just drill a hole athwartships at that location, fill it with bog and then run your spectra to the hole.  Done that way all the time in skiff types, surly not a advantage in any way, but a fairly simple remedy....  ???
In honor of Leslie Nielsen's passing, "Don't call me Shirley"

Back to the business at hand: I had the same thought yesterday when reading this thread. Seems simple and straightforward enough to me. I see no competitive advantage either. Would need Tech Committee approval though. Seems sensible enough to me!
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Justin Scott on December 02, 2010, 07:08:18 AM
Quote from: Dan Tucker on November 30, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
Am I the only one who likes the sprit line to the bow eye? I know it's difficult to repair if ever needed, but I like how the pole height stays fixed and the pole doesn't bend under load.


Surely you jest sir!

The pole bends under load........just look at any pic of an older boat going downwind in a blow. The angle of the sprit line means that it provides very little support to the end of the pole.

IMHO, there is no discernable difference downwind between bend of new pole without sprit line and old pole with.

Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Michael Gravitt on December 13, 2010, 04:17:49 AM
What did you come up with the pole?  I also broke mine.  Sounds like it is broken at the same spot.  I can repair but if we found new poles I would consider buying one.  Rondar says they can have one made for 500$.  I am going to try and fix mine first.  I need the bushings where the tack line comes through if anyone knows where I can get something line this.  I also need the plug at the end.
Title: Re: Collision... shattered the end of my sprit.. Question about repair..
Post by: Ben Steinberg on December 16, 2010, 09:27:12 PM
fiberspar no longer makes custom carbon products, only windsurfing masts.  no lead there for new spin poles.  Is anyone REALLY interested?