So, my boat (#166) arrived on Tuesday, we raced it Wednesday and again this weekend. We're doing handicap until others in the area smarten up and get themselves real boats so keep that in mind. I have, and will have, a series of probably dumb questions that have popped up.
First one, the spin halyard/retrieval line. Try as we might we just can't stop that line from jamming in a block during the hoists (and sometimes the drops too). How do the gurus of Vipering deal with this?
Thanks.
Luke.
Was having the same problem w my new #148... We noticed TONS of extra line in cockpit... Measured about 20 feet of extra & cut about 15' of it off... It's helped a lot!
Luke, ditto to what Jim said. We had the same problem and also cut out a large amount of excess ditch line. I am not sure the reason why it is so long to begin with.
Cutting the excess seemed to be the obvious choice for us too except that I was worried we would then be short when it comes to the inevitable wipeout. From what I've read the best way to recover from a memorable wipeout is to dump 6'-10' of halyard. Does slicing 15' off the halyard leave enough to do this?
Luke.
Quote from: Luke Porter on June 13, 2011, 06:23:41 AM
Cutting the excess seemed to be the obvious choice for us too except that I was worried we would then be short when it comes to the inevitable wipeout. From what I've read the best way to recover from a memorable wipeout is to dump 6'-10' of halyard. Does slicing 15' off the halyard leave enough to do this?
Luke.
As far as I know this isn't an issue--when you drop the halyard, the downhaul line comes in too. What you want is just enough line to keep the downhaul hanging loose when flying the chute on a breezy day. Too short a line and you get unsightly butt-crack at the bottom of the chute. fwiw we have 86'.
The only real issue with cutting the halyard/retreival line, is that different sailmakers seem to manage to put the patches in different places, so a new sail might result in a too short halyard.
Or maybe it's just me... I like to have a knot in the retrieval line between the upper and lower patch, about 6-10 inches below the upper patch, so that the kite bunches up a bit less in the sock on the way in.
Or maybe it's just me... I like to have a knot in the retrieval line between the upper and lower patch, about 6-10 inches below the upper patch, so that the kite bunches up a bit less in the sock on the way in.
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That is another interesting subject. We did that intially also. We have a Hyde chute and found that, because of the way Hyde had the patches spaced, if we didn't allow the top and bottom patch to suck together, the head of the chute would not suck all the way in on the douse.
And by the way, at this point, if I numbered all my "stupid newbie" questions, I would be well into the triple digits by now! And we have only had the boat 2 months!
We tie a 12" loop between the kite down haul and the midlead without any issues on the head of the kite. Have done so on Gen 1,2 and 3 Hydes.
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee but I'm not not sure why you'd have trouble...the end of the knot is still around the downhaul eye?
I remember my first Viper regatta...absolutely NO one would tell me how to rig the kite. Took a few tries to get it right...in the middle of the race...lmao!
We keep our halyard long...88' as we usually toss the middle into the piss when we hoist or douse to keep the assholes to minimum.
I don't think you EVER want to dump 8' of halyard on the kite unless you're dropping it. 6' max..preferably 4' (one long body haul).
Quote from: Garrett Johns on June 13, 2011, 11:02:39 AM
That is another interesting subject. We did that intially also. We have a Hyde chute and found that, because of the way Hyde had the patches spaced, if we didn't allow the top and bottom patch to suck together, the head of the chute would not suck all the way in on the douse.
I simply don't worry about a few inches of kite coming out of the tube.
Quote from: Dan Tucker on June 13, 2011, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Garrett Johns on June 13, 2011, 11:02:39 AM
That is another interesting subject. We did that intially also. We have a Hyde chute and found that, because of the way Hyde had the patches spaced, if we didn't allow the top and bottom patch to suck together, the head of the chute would not suck all the way in on the douse.
I simply don't worry about a few inches of kite coming out of the tube.
Does to bother me either. However, there is a knot inside the pole on the tackline. If that is in the wrong position, it will stop the kite from dowsing completly also.
It was more like a few feet! The tack line was the issue. The tack line would restrict the kite from being pulled further into the sock. Our choices were to either eliminate the large bowline knot at the patch, which would allow the head to continue to get sucked into the sock, or, to lengthen our tack line to about 2 ft so the foot didn't stop the kite from being sucked in further.
We went with choice 1 since having the kite 2 feet off the pole is not the best.
if you take the end fitting off the pole there is a knot behind it. Work the knot towards the end tied to the mast step 6 inches or so. It should help get the tack in a bit further the hole.
what ben said.. check the stop knot that is inside the pole... you may need to move it towards the maststep by a foot or so. I find the kite goes in easier if the two pull patches do not come in @ the same time. Either a figure 8 about 18" below the top patch knot, or a long 18" bowline @ the top patch.
Going with the chance of sounding totally stupid here...wouldn't be the first time...doesn't the knot inside the pole also control how far the tack line comes out and therefore how far the tack is off the pole (ie 2 ft like a mentioned earlier).
I might just be not getting it....wouldn't be the first time for that either!!
I was our guess that the patches on the kite, be it from the same sail maker or not, are not always exact.
No, the knot inside the pole allows the pole to be retracted when you retrieve the kite. The max extension on the pole is a function of where your kite is tied on the tackline. I have a small stopper ball on the tackline that when the pole is all the way out, the ball is tight against the end of the pole. leave 3-4" of extra line to tie the bowline to the kite.
Generaly I think that the patches on the kite will be fairly uniform from the same manufacture... However different builders will have different "ideas" as to what is best. I am always concerned about cutting the spin halyard to exactly fit a sail... it might be too short on a different kite due to discrepancies of the build.
Quote from: Drew Harper on June 13, 2011, 11:17:05 AM
I remember my first Viper regatta...absolutely NO one would tell me how to rig the kite. Took a few tries to get it right...in the middle of the race...lmao!
Wait a minute there... Really? You must have been asking the wrong people. When I first got my boat, I had an endless stream of people telling me how to rig it. Then Kay went sailing with us in St Pete and sorted out everything, and we've never had problems since. It's one of the things that sold me on the class.
Full disclosure, we all screw it up a times: Somehow we got the jib halyard on the wrong side of the spin halyard this past Saturday. Didn't notice until we were putting the boat away - the effect was some really bad attempted port-gybe douses. What was amazing was how well it all worked even rigged that badly. We did much better on Sunday with things rigged right...
Just try telling Drew how to rig his boat and see where it gets you.
Refer to mainsheet thread (smiley face!)
FWIW, you only need a small length between top and bottom patch to prevent bunching. Even 6" will work if you are having problems getting head of kite in throat after dowses.
Quote from: Justin Scott on June 13, 2011, 10:00:18 PM
Just try telling Drew how to rig his boat and see where it gets you.
Oh yeah, that explains it....
Quote from: Garrett Johns on June 13, 2011, 05:25:07 PM
Going with the chance of sounding totally stupid here...wouldn't be the first time...doesn't the knot inside the pole also control how far the tack line comes out and therefore how far the tack is off the pole (ie 2 ft like a mentioned earlier).
I might just be not getting it....wouldn't be the first time for that either!!
I was our guess that the patches on the kite, be it from the same sail maker or not, are not always exact.
Garrett,
On the tack line, there is a bowline tied on to the mast step, that is what controls how far out the tack line and pole can go. I moved my stopper knot inside the pole on 129 about two feet aft and the kite now douses with a nice 12" bowline in the retrival line all the way in the tube. Works like a charm.
-Scott
Quote from: Tim Carter on June 13, 2011, 03:51:12 PM
...However, there is a knot inside the pole on the tackline. If that is in the wrong position, it will stop the kite from dowsing completly also.
There is...? (!)
On my Mark I boats the tack line goes from the bow eyelet through one side of the tip of the pole, through a block, through the other side of the pole, and gets tied to the tack. The block is attached to a bungee (which goes through the pole plus a couple of lengths back and forth under the deck), which does a combination of sucking slack tackline into the pole when doused, and putting some retracting force on the pole when fully extended (and the kite pulls the pole in too at the end of retrieving.
Is this incorrect? Perhaps we're talking about MarkII+ poles? Curious.
-Olaf
mark II and III poles only olaf
As far as newbie questions in the Viper fleet, there are no stupid questions but you sometimes get stupid answers. I haven't come across anyone who didn't want to share techniques or want to talk about their boat yet. Just bring a Dark n stormy and and ask away.