Hi all. Wondering what solutions are out there for keeping the main halyard from drooping once downward pressure is loaded on the boom. Has a tensioning system similar to the jib ever been discussed?
Replace the cleats if they are worn. The hard coat anodized ones last longer than the silver painted ones. Replace or end for end the halyard if there is a wear spot. The rules also allow an alternate type cleat of your choice to be installed. A locking horn cleat in place of the lower jammer would probably work out well.
Scott,
Also make sure your crew keeps the halyard BESIDE the cleat when hoisting. If you hoist through the cleat it wears prematurely.
A main halyard lock would really help the Viper. Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.
I replaced one of the two jam cleats with a guy cleat. Seems to work for us.
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 19, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
A main halyard lock would really help the Viper. Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.
I was crying for a halyard lock 3+ years ago. Did not get many in my camp. But I personaly still think it is the way to go, all issues considered..
People who feel strongly about it can always submit a rule proposal to allow halyard locks and have everyone vote on it (unless this already happened; I'm still relatively new around here compared to some others).
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 19, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
A main halyard lock would really help the Viper. Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.
The load argument is an old wives tale (or old riggers tale) which is not scientificaly correct. The force transmitted down the spar is equal and opposite whether the halyard is secured at the bottom of the mast, half way up the mast or at the top of the mast.
Try this simple experiment with a broom handle. Tie a weight to a string and attach it at all three points. Lift the broom handle and the same force will be transmitted down the broom handle to your hand.
The creep argument is valid and is why you see it on big racing boats.
100% agree that we need a better system for cleating the main halyard. I ahve one of the first carbon masts. I am very careful to keep my halyard out of the cleats and I am on my 4th set of cleats. PITA to drill out and rivet every 2 years.
There was a rule change that pretty much allows you to do darned near anything to secure the main halyard, as I recall.
I've seen a couple of boats with horn cleats on the mast or deck.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
"8.4 The main halyard cleats must be at or near the base of the mast and may be of any type. The primary jib halyard cleat must be of the same type and in the same place as installed by the builder and an additional jib halyard cleat may be installed on the deck or aft lip of the foredeck to help prevent the jib halyard from slipping under load."
There we go, I guess...
We, here in Aus, have less of a problem with the main halyard than we have with the jib halyard.
With consistently, stronger winds here in Australia, the cleat for the jib halyard is insufficient.
The class has allowed a double cleat for the jib halyard, and while that works, a double cleat is not a very elegant solution.
When adding an extra cleat, or a knot behind the one cleat, it transfers the weight to the turning block at the base of the mast, which eventually bends and pulls the saddle off the mast.
We have experimented with a system that is employed in the FF15 class.
Attach a very small, bent over, saddle to the bottom bolt of the top mast, jib halyard block. In that saddle, tie a figure 8 knot in the jib halyard. The halyard goes from from the saddle through a high load block, attached to the top of the jib and back up through the top mast, jib halyard block and then down inside the mast and through the normal system, to the single cleat on the port foredeck.
This doubles the purchase of the entire system but halves the load on all the bottom elements of the system. (saddle,block and deck cleat)
For the cost of the extra rope, and the block on the top of the jib you end up with a system that reduces the load on all the other parts of the system that bend, break and slip. You don't need the extra cleat on the lip of the deck.
And, in strong winds.... You will love pulling on the jib fine tunes with double the purchase....they actually move....
We know this is all outside the current rules, and if sailing in national or international viper events, would use the sanctioned system. Never the less, it is saving us investing in extra cleats etc and making sailing easier, so we will continue using the system locally. It is worth looking at it as a possible alternative to the current systems.
(Have pictures if this description is unclear)
John, please post pictures.
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 21, 2013, 09:00:12 AM
We, here in Aus, have less of a problem with the main halyard than we have with the jib halyard.
With consistently, stronger winds here in Australia, the cleat for the jib halyard is insufficient.
The class has allowed a double cleat for the jib halyard, and while that works, a double cleat is not a very elegant solution.
When adding an extra cleat, or a knot behind the one cleat, it transfers the weight to the turning block at the base of the mast, which eventually bends and pulls the saddle off the mast.
We have experimented with a system that is employed in the FF15 class.
Attach a very small, bent over, saddle to the bottom bolt of the top mast, jib halyard block. In that saddle, tie a figure 8 knot in the jib halyard. The halyard goes from from the saddle through a high load block, attached to the top of the jib and back up through the top mast, jib halyard block and then down inside the mast and through the normal system, to the single cleat on the port foredeck.
This doubles the purchase of the entire system but halves the load on all the bottom elements of the system. (saddle,block and deck cleat)
For the cost of the extra rope, and the block on the top of the jib you end up with a system that reduces the load on all the other parts of the system that bend, break and slip. You don't need the extra cleat on the lip of the deck.
And, in strong winds.... You will love pulling on the jib fine tunes with double the purchase....they actually move....
We know this is all outside the current rules, and if sailing in national or international viper events, would use the sanctioned system. Never the less, it is saving us investing in extra cleats etc and making sailing easier, so we will continue using the system locally. It is worth looking at it as a possible alternative to the current systems.
(Have pictures if this description is unclear)
Karver KJ aluminum cam cleat solved my jib halyard slippage. Same hole spacing as the slipping Harken.
Quote from: Justin Scott on March 20, 2013, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 19, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
A main halyard lock would really help the Viper. Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.
The load argument is an old wives tale (or old riggers tale) which is not scientificaly correct. The force transmitted down the spar is equal and opposite whether the halyard is secured at the bottom of the mast, half way up the mast or at the top of the mast.
Try this simple experiment with a broom handle. Tie a weight to a string and attach it at all three points. Lift the broom handle and the same force will be transmitted down the broom handle to your hand.
The creep argument is valid and is why you see it on big racing boats.
Pretty sure the turning block at the top of the spar doubles the compression load between there and the cleat at the bottom, as compared with a lock. Sorry to be an old wife.
I would support a lock IF I had ever heard of one that could be relied on to release. Main that won't come down is a recipe for fun and games at the crane after racing, to say nothing of safety issues.
Quote from: Matt Rowlinson on March 21, 2013, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Justin Scott on March 20, 2013, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 19, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
A main halyard lock would really help the Viper. Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.
The load argument is an old wives tale (or old riggers tale) which is not scientificaly correct. The force transmitted down the spar is equal and opposite whether the halyard is secured at the bottom of the mast, half way up the mast or at the top of the mast.
Try this simple experiment with a broom handle. Tie a weight to a string and attach it at all three points. Lift the broom handle and the same force will be transmitted down the broom handle to your hand.
The creep argument is valid and is why you see it on big racing boats.
Pretty sure the turning block at the top of the spar doubles the compression load between there and the cleat at the bottom, as compared with a lock. Sorry to be an old wife.
I would support a lock IF I had ever heard of one that could be relied on to release. Main that won't come down is a recipe for fun and games at the crane after racing, to say nothing of safety issues.
We can draw fun diagrams over rum and cokes at Charleston.
Assuming the same tension on the cloth of the main. The main is exerting a 20 Newton down force, the mast wall is exerting a 20 Newton up force. If the halyard is nailed to top of mast, it is exerting a 20 Newton down force. If you extend that main halyard by 2 cm. round a turning block and attach at top of mast (how most halyard locks work) the down force is still 20 Newtons. The force stay the same, no matter how far down the mast you attach the cleat. The length of the halyard does not increase the down force (except for creep).
Try using a piece of line to lift a bucket of water. Tie one end of line to the bucket handle and lift with the single line. Then run the line through the handle and lift the bucket holding both ends of the line. The bucket will weigh the same. You need the same amount of force to lift the bucket , even with the turning block.
There is come additional force spent on the stretch of length of halyard...which is halyard creep. But its pretty small on a Viper.
Quote from: Dan Tucker on March 20, 2013, 11:16:15 PM
There was a rule change that pretty much allows you to do darned near anything to secure the main halyard, as I recall.
I've seen a couple of boats with horn cleats on the mast or deck.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
For Dan or anyone who has put a horn cleat type system in place of the v-cleats for the main halyard - What brand and size horn cleat? Where were they attached? Have been digging around online and haven't really found anything that looks small enough to fit in the space or the holes that are there. Photos would be great if not too much trouble.
Thanks,
Dave
Dave,
I don't believe there is a direct replacement that I'm aware of. I haven't looked at the rule language in a while, but I recall it's pretty flexible.
The drawback of adding an additional clear on the mast is putting in more holes. Or mount it on the deck and you need a better turning block as the OE block probably isn't load rated. I like the simplicity of the stock system and would replace the cleats if necessary.
Quote from: Dan Tucker on March 21, 2013, 10:05:17 PM
Dave,
I like the simplicity of the stock system and would replace the cleats if necessary.
Frequently.
[/quote]
We can draw fun diagrams over rum and cokes at Charleston.
Assuming the same tension on the cloth of the main. The main is exerting a 20 Newton down force, the mast wall is exerting a 20 Newton up force. If the halyard is nailed to top of mast, it is exerting a 20 Newton down force. If you extend that main halyard by 2 cm. round a turning block and attach at top of mast (how most halyard locks work) the down force is still 20 Newtons. The force stay the same, no matter how far down the mast you attach the cleat. The length of the halyard does not increase the down force (except for creep).
Try using a piece of line to lift a bucket of water. Tie one end of line to the bucket handle and lift with the single line. Then run the line through the handle and lift the bucket holding both ends of the line. The bucket will weigh the same. You need the same amount of force to lift the bucket , even with the turning block.
There is come additional force spent on the stretch of length of halyard...which is halyard creep. But its pretty small on a Viper.
[/quote]
But if you dead end the line to something, you can lift the bucket with half the force. First example doesn't take account of force *between* the block and the attachment point--trivial if attachment is at top of mast (as in a lock); non-trivial if it is a cleat at the bottom. Diagrams & rum will have to wait for Newport--we alas have to miss Charleston. Except as an excuse for rum-drinking, it's moot for me--I don't like the locks I've seen, though they didn't work quite the way you describe, so maybe there are some ok ones.
We installed a horn cleat to replace the lower v-cleat, which seems to have solved the problem. Not sure what size, but a small one fits fine. I did have to drill another hole--maybe even 2. I took the the fitting off the heel of the mast, then through bolted the cleat. Sorry, I don't have access to the boat, so can't take a photo.
Quote from: Justin Scott on March 22, 2013, 08:53:10 AM
Quote from: Dan Tucker on March 21, 2013, 10:05:17 PM
Dave,
I like the simplicity of the stock system and would replace the cleats if necessary.
Frequently.
My old boat #50 has an original batch carbon mast as old as yours, and is still on the two original cleats. YMMV, obviously.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
I'm not exactly sure what a horn cleat is but we may have implemented it. We installed a rack that has several attachment points. Then we went to pre-streched spectra with a loop that fits over one of the prongs in the rack. The sytem makes it a little bit harder to initially hoist the main, but once it is up there is almost no creep. An it is not going to come loose either.
I will try to remember to take a picture and post it after this coming weekend.
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 22, 2013, 06:42:46 PM
I'm not exactly sure what a horn cleat is but we may have implemented it. We installed a rack that has several attachment points. Then we went to pre-streched spectra with a loop that fits over one of the prongs in the rack. The sytem makes it a little bit harder to initially hoist the main, but once it is up there is almost no creep. An it is not going to come loose either.
I will try to remember to take a picture and post it after this coming weekend.
Would that be 4mm spectra Kevin?? ;)
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 22, 2013, 06:42:46 PM
I'm not exactly sure what a horn cleat is but we may have implemented it. We installed a rack that has several attachment points. Then we went to pre-streched spectra with a loop that fits over one of the prongs in the rack. The sytem makes it a little bit harder to initially hoist the main, but once it is up there is almost no creep. An it is not going to come loose either.
I will try to remember to take a picture and post it after this coming weekend.
Horn cleat is the kind of cleat you see on most docks that boats tie up to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tied_cleat.jpg
Quote from: Tim Carter on March 22, 2013, 06:47:39 PM
Quote from: Kevin Brown on March 22, 2013, 06:42:46 PM
I'm not exactly sure what a horn cleat is but we may have implemented it. We installed a rack that has several attachment points. Then we went to pre-streched spectra with a loop that fits over one of the prongs in the rack. The sytem makes it a little bit harder to initially hoist the main, but once it is up there is almost no creep. An it is not going to come loose either.
I will try to remember to take a picture and post it after this coming weekend.
Would that be 4mm spectra Kevin?? ;)
And the tail (unloaded portion) is also 4mm?? ;) also
Photos of a system we're experimenting with.
As I mentioned earlier, due to consistently sailing in stronger winds, we were having trouble with slipping jib halyards but we were also blowing up the turning block at the bottom of the mast and destroying the saddle it is attached to the mast with.
For the cost of some extra rope and a block - problem solved and the system doubles the purchase of the fine tunes.
Attach a very small, bent over, saddle to the bottom bolt of the top mast, jib halyard block. In that saddle, tie a figure 8 knot in the jib halyard. The halyard goes from from the saddle through a high load block, attached to the top of the jib and back up through the top mast, jib halyard block and then down inside the mast and through the normal system, to the single cleat on the port foredeck.
This is really interesting...
Dave, i agree (assuming you mean that in a positive way). Jon, thank you for posting the pictures. I was having trouble picturing this - it looks like a very nice solution.
question ; how long have you been using this? No issues? Is anyone else doing it over there? If it doesn't present any problems before next years GM i'd like to see this offered as an option within the class rules.
J
Quote from: Dave Nickerson on March 24, 2013, 10:00:58 AM
This is really interesting...
Absolutely. Great idea
My boat came to me rigged that way from the previous owner, on both the main and jib. But that was before the class rules. The only problem I recall was dealing with the double-length halyard tails when the sails were up.
Used that sort of set up on the ex-wife's Paralympic winning SKUD-18 originally. Fixed length halyard with an eye splice on the mast butt end, and some junky line for the hoisting (unloaded) tail.
Eventually ditched that "alligator back" cleat and swapped to a hook on the end of a 3:1 or 4:1 tensioner, going to a single aluminum v-cleat!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
The problem with the 2:1 jib halyard is that halves the effectiveness of the fine tune. One of the top features on a viper is the jib fine tune.
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
The problem with the 2:1 jib halyard is that halves the effectiveness of the fine tune. One of the top features on a viper is the jib fine tune.
Yes more line will need to transit the system, but now you could adjust the the halyard under load in breeze without dumping the sheet 1st... With it you would have a 4:1 advantage, unlike the current 2:1
We're using it on a few boats here and the others are interested. Nobody has had any trouble with it.
As for the halyard length you don't really notice a difference. With the old system or the new one, we have always coiled our halyards so they don't come undone and put them in the pocket on the spinnaker chute or just under the deck.
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it improve the boat speed of your boat over one that stays standard - probably not
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Does it increase cost of boat - not sure (4 metres of extra rope and a block as opposed to an extra cleat - depends on the cleat I guess.) I don't think we will have to replace a turning block or saddle for quite a while and that is worth quite a lot to me... I hate maintenance...
Interesting, the similarities between Texas and Australia
from the site;
both have a somewhat similar culture. Cowboys/stockmen, a love of country music in the 'Outback' of each place. A reputation for being down to earth and friendly and 'red-blooded.' In the stereotypical accents of both the word 'snake' sounds like 'snike' to American ears, lol. Both are well known for their wide open spaces and everything being 'big.'
Jon, you rule-breaker. Keep doing what you do ;-)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/texas/1551228-starting-parallels-between-texas-australia-houston.html#ixzz2OfRE9lNC
Quote from: Tim Carter on March 26, 2013, 03:22:30 AM
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
The problem with the 2:1 jib halyard is that halves the effectiveness of the fine tune. One of the top features on a viper is the jib fine tune.
Yes more line will need to transit the system, but now you could adjust the the halyard under load in breeze without dumping the sheet 1st... With it you would have a 4:1 advantage, unlike the current 2:1
Wrong. Just because a line goes over a sheave it does not have 2:1. Its 1:1. So with a block on the jib head you make it 2:1
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
We're looking toward the future.....
The next thing we are looking at are sliding Zimmer frames for us old bastards!!!!!
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
You dirty ol man.
Ok, pics sole
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
I wouldn't say dirty jones, lets say still functioning!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 27, 2013, 06:55:24 AM
You dirty ol man.
Ok, pics sole
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
And that's what it's all about... At out age eh glen
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 09:35:23 AM
I wouldn't say dirty jones, lets say still functioning!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 27, 2013, 06:55:24 AM
You dirty ol man.
Ok, pics sole
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm once as good as I've ever been!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 27, 2013, 09:00:25 PM
And that's what it's all about... At out age eh glen
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 09:35:23 AM
I wouldn't say dirty jones, lets say still functioning!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 27, 2013, 06:55:24 AM
You dirty ol man.
Ok, pics sole
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
Quote from: Glenn Vanheel on March 27, 2013, 12:32:41 AM
Well, he does have a skinny 19 yr old female! Or shall we call him on that and say pics man!
Quote from: Jeff Jones on March 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I don't think we adjust 6 inches from wrinkles to full on pucker mode. So... Now it's twelve inches. Ain't nutin wrong with 12 inches Matt.
I understand your probably used to working with a much shorter stroke.... :-)
Quote from: Matt Sole on March 26, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Jon Stubbs on March 26, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
As for the fine tune, its not harder... its easier. You haven't halved the effectiveness of the fine tune... you've doubled it. At times, with the old system it was a bit of struggle to pull on the fine tune in a big breeze. Now its a piece of cake....
Does it make the boat easier to sail - definitely especially if you have a small forward hand.
Yes it makes the fine tune easier to pull but by doing so it halves the effectiveness on the halyard. Simple mathematics.
I don't know how small your "forward hand" is but i sailed with a skinny 19 year old girl and never once did she complain or struggle with the standard fine tune set up. Time for your "forward hand" to HTFU!!!
Justin can attest to the quality of my crew, he introduced her to me...
There is nothing wrong with a 6 inch stroke when you have a 19yo girl who can work it properly...
Sole got the 1 and the 9 interpolated. She and her sister are sailing J70s now.