how does everyone get sufficient luff tension on the jib in fresh wind? not sure if class rules permit a cunningham at the foot, but really need some sort of purchase to get a good set
My boat has a halyard tension device that can be used to apply extra tension once the jib halyard is cleated off. It's a multi-block purchase system with tails on both sides of the boat and I've never had any trouble getting as much as I wanted, although I usually don't need any more than I can pull on with the halyard itself.
Thanks Jay- does your purchase system run to the base of the tack (ie a floating tack) or do you have a cunningham eye?
I find in winds over 15knts(seems to be blowing in excess of that everytime I go out at the moment!) the halyard tension is too soft and it can not provide adequate purchase just going through the block in the mast.
The standard "class legal" jib halyard set up has a halyard (cleated on the port deck) and jib halyard fine tune which has tails run to port and stbd just where the deck meets the fwd tanks, within easy reach of the forward crew. The jib halyard fine tune is a "displacement" mechanism (You run the halyard through a bullet block attached to the fine tune which pulls the halyard and displaces it to increase tension), which has additional 4:1. This is enough to crank on jib luff tension in all conditions. I doubt you want to be bothered with a jib cunningham and have line running across the foredeck.
If you want to increase the purchase on the jib halyard fine tune, this would be a relatively easy thing to do.
Jealous of your 15 knots.......is it warm?
Actually Justin - it has been more like 20-25+knots besides the odd friday afternoon rum race(which are always fun) it hasn't been normal summer wind patterns at all. That's why my 1:1 purchase setup on the halyard hasn't quite been enough!!
Regards, Paul
Lucky sod.
1:1 doesn't cut it. We adjust jib halyard tension with the fine tune for chop or flat water even in 10-15.
You need to re-install the fine tune which must have been removed in one of Growler's previous lives. If someone has a photo of the fine tune mechanism perhaps they can post it (my boat is in Atlanta!)
After the halyard exits the mast, it goes thru a block attached to the hull on port side and then through the port deck. Between the block and the deck (or between the block and the mast), we run the halyard through a floating bullet block.The bullet block is attached to the fine tune line which has 4:1 purchase running up the underside of the foredeck and the tail splits to two cleats on either side of the boat accesible to the fwd crew. This fine tune "deflects" the halyard and has lots of purchase to increase or decrease jib halyard tension without coming off the rail.
If anyone does have a photo would really appreciate it
Ta.
Paul
Quote from: paulg on March 25, 2007, 11:57:49 PM
Thanks Jay- does your purchase system run to the base of the tack (ie a floating tack) or do you have a cunningham eye?
I find in winds over 15knts(seems to be blowing in excess of that everytime I go out at the moment!) the halyard tension is too soft and it can not provide adequate purchase just going through the block in the mast.
Mine is just as Justin described - the tack is fixed and the adjustment puts tension on the halyard. Here's the closest photo from the archives, but the fine tune is hiding in the darkness under the deck. I'll try to snap a better shot this weekend.
Thats great Jay- my system obviously was removed at some stage-I do have a cunningham in one of my jibs, but it pulls the tack to one side down low so is not ideal, and not great with an extra sheet lying on the foredeck, but am getting a good idea of what you have got- if you do manage a photo of under the deck that would be great.
Thanks for the help.
Paul
Here's a photo of the jib halyard tension fine-tune from Bill Shaw's #17 Viper. His is the only one I've seen with a Harken box - the others are using a multi-block purchase system with the same routing of the jib halyard from the mast to the fine tune block and then through a fairlead and up to the deck cleat.
Sorry for the shot quality - I didn't realize the foreground was out of focus in the on-camera preview! But you can still see enough to get the idea.
Am about to put a system in my boat in next few weeks- Bill does the Harken box work fine- some say in certain circumstances it does not release that easily. i.e if conditions were variable and you wanted to ease tension it can be difficult. Have one lined up I can get but it would be good to hear if works ok in exactly the same application that i would be using it for.
Cheers
Specifically, Bill's magic box is located such that it tends to get in a bind - if it was somewhat further towards the bow it would probably be better. And all magic boxes have so much friction that they don't release smoothly under light loads, but that doesn't seem to be a big problem on Bill's boat. (Of course, Bill has sailed his boat more than I have - comments?)
I think the standard system, using blocks works very well. U dont need the leverage of a magic box unless you are converting to a halyard/headstay (eg wire luff in the jib) and want to use the halyard to tighten rig tension. In the NE boats we use the halyard soley to tighten or ease the jib luff, and need the fine tune to ease easily to put crinkles in the luff of the jib. I never have a problem putting enough tension on the jib halyard, and at the same time it has little friction so even a light breeze is enough tension to ease the luff.
The course halyard goes thru one bullet block between the mast and its cleat. The bullet block is on the end of a line which has 4:1 (maybe 6:1, I would have to look inside my boat) and goes to two ends, one on either side of the boat. Tightening the fine tune pulls on the block and "deflects" the coarse halyard. Deflection gives plenty of power without much friction.
Hey Tech Committee,
I'd like to verify that we don't need to run the jib fine tune as per the boat came from the factory?
This thread seems to say that with Magic Boxes and all.
Please let me know before I get a bunch of spectra nad a few more turning blocks!
Thanks
Greg
USA 46
heroin
Check out the Harken One Design layout page for the viper 640:
http://www.harken.com/OneDesign/Viper.php
Quote from: Greg Jackson on June 16, 2011, 01:08:48 AM
Hey Tech Committee,
I'd like to verify that we don't need to run the jib fine tune as per the boat came from the factory?
This thread seems to say that with Magic Boxes and all.
Please let me know before I get a bunch of spectra nad a few more turning blocks!
Thanks
Greg
USA 46
heroin
I don't see where in the class rules it says you can deviate from the stock jib halyard fine tune system, but I defer to the Technical Committee on this one.
I can't imagine yoiu want more luff tension than the standard system I'll give you. Generally the uglier the jib looks, the faster it is ;-)
Outstanding find Robert!
I have been using what came with the boat for four years and is a 2:1 purchase. I'm missing blocks 073 and 353 in my current system.
Greg
A basic premise of our rules is that we are sailing these boats as they were supplied by the builder. See 1.4 and 1.7. Some systems, like the cunningham and GNAV, allow certain lattitude. And unless it says you can - you can't. Of course, an issue is that that our 2 builders have rigged different systems different ways over the years. But our rules allow you to upgrade an older boat to current levels (1.4(b)).
With regards to the jib halyard fine tune, look at a current Rondar. Subject to check, the max purchase is 8:1 using a double ended cascade. When retrofitting an older boat, you may not be able to exactly copy the current system, but get as close as you can. A magic box? Nope. Jib cunningham. Nope. But you should find that the jib halyard fine tune does the job pretty well.
Contact me directly if you have more questions.
Dave - TC
Quote from: Greg Jackson on June 16, 2011, 01:08:48 AM
Hey Tech Committee,
I'd like to verify that we don't need to run the jib fine tune as per the boat came from the factory?
This thread seems to say that with Magic Boxes and all.
Please let me know before I get a bunch of spectra nad a few more turning blocks!
Thanks
Greg
USA 46
heroin
Greg,
There is no exception in the Class Rules for the Jib Halyard fine tune set-up, so "As supplied by builder" it is, to comply with Class Rules. The Harken diagram is a good representation of how it's supposed to be rigged: http://www.harken.com/images/viper-jib-halyard-leads-lg.gif
Quote from: Dan Tucker on June 17, 2011, 11:45:10 AM
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Greg,
There is no exception in the Class Rules for the Jib Halyard fine tune set-up, so "As supplied by builder" it is, to comply with Class Rules. The Harken diagram is a good representation of how it's supposed to be rigged: http://www.harken.com/images/viper-jib-halyard-leads-lg.gif
I'm going to follow the Harken example tonight... the reason I started checking into this was because you mentioned something about it to Chrisann!
Kinda nice when someone else drives your boat! You learn things!
If you really want jib luff tension, unpin your forestay going down wind, then sail upwind. Tried that out tuesday......
that will do it.. :)
can make for a short life out of a jib on a backstay boat. btdt
Quote from: Matt Sole on June 17, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
If you really want jib luff tension, unpin your forestay going down wind, then sail upwind. Tried that out tuesday......
Ouchie....flog that crewman who was in charge of French rings
Not into self floggings.....
Quote from: Greg Jackson on June 16, 2011, 01:08:48 AM
Hey Tech Committee,
I'd like to verify that we don't need to run the jib fine tune as per the boat came from the factory?
This thread seems to say that with Magic Boxes and all.
Please let me know before I get a bunch of spectra nad a few more turning blocks!
Thanks
Greg
USA 46
heroin
Im not Tech committee but I figure that class rules on website trump threads on forum:-
1.2 No changes to the boat supplied by the builder are allowed unless they are specifically permitted by the class rules.
1.6. No addition or alteration may be made to ....... fittings, type of fittings, running rigging, ....as supplied by the builder except when such an alteration or change is specifically authorized by these rules.
So although I'd favor a more powerful jib fine tune and wire luffs in our jibs, I'm sailing with the same jib set up as everyone else.
Quote from: Justin Scott on July 07, 2011, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Greg Jackson on June 16, 2011, 01:08:48 AM
Hey Tech Committee,
I'd like to verify that we don't need to run the jib fine tune as per the boat came from the factory?
This thread seems to say that with Magic Boxes and all.
Please let me know before I get a bunch of spectra nad a few more turning blocks!
Thanks
Greg
USA 46
heroin
Im not Tech committee but I figure that class rules on website trump threads on forum:-
1.2 No changes to the boat supplied by the builder are allowed unless they are specifically permitted by the class rules.
1.6. No addition or alteration may be made to ....... fittings, type of fittings, running rigging, ....as supplied by the builder except when such an alteration or change is specifically authorized by these rules.
So although I'd favor a more powerful jib fine tune and wire luffs in our jibs, I'm sailing with the same jib set up as everyone else.
Justin,
I found out through the Harken rigging guide that my boat came from the prevuis owner with the fine tune rigged incorrectly and was missing one purchase, now corrected.
Much better now!
Greg