Newbie question - mainsheet systems?

[Dave Nickerson]

Kevin - take a quick look at section 8 of the class constitution on the website. Send me an email with proposed rule change language and a reasonable justification. The beginning of the class rules has a summary of the criteria we'll all be looking at. The TC will help make sure it's voteable and simple to implement if it passes. 
Dave

[Justin Scott]

Photos from 2008? (Justin in Newport) and 2009 (Griffin in St. Pete).  Different rule at that point in time.

Both of those pictures are from the old "Single aft bridle, 3:1" purchase system without split end mainsheet. I sailed with that system, although neither of those pics is me.

In those days there was still only a choice of two mainsheet systems, aft bridle or mid bridle. The top guys used the aft bridle to get more leech tension BUT IT WAS BRUTAL (a) Because it had much less purchase than any of the current modern systems and required lots of arm strength to play upwind in any kind of breeze and (b) It was critical to adjust the bridle length between every race in order to keep the boom centered. Those who didn't adjust their bridle frequently would find themselves unable to point with the front of the fleet.

The split end mainsheet revolutionized Viper sailing upwind. It made the boat easier to sail upwind and had the immediate effect of levelling the playing field. It was probably on of the best upgrades the class members have ever made.

Anyone who wants to go back to the system in those pictures probably feels nostalgic about the aluminum mast as well.

[Justin Scott]

"What I always did was to cleat off the sheet in a loose position and grab the sheet on the boom and just use the inside block as a 2:1 for the run. Super fast to pump on the waves."

I like that idea Matt!  That was the only reason I didn't like the VX-Sole system... shall we try to get this rule passed again?

Try it first Jim, you wont like it.
(i) On the existing system, you can grab the mainsheet from the boom and you shed all the superfluos purchase in the mainsheet immediately and you can really "feel" the puffs downwind and react as quickly as your spin trimmer can talk to you. The double ended aft bridle still has double the purchase behind you and is less effective downwind in puffs.
(ii) Gybes can be much more aggresive because you grab the "bundle" at the top of the mid bridle and whip the boom across. It makes roll gybes much easier (+you have the bridle to grab and pull yourself to windward as you come out of the gybe).   

My 2 cents

[Jeff Jones]

i think it's pretty silly to hamstring kevin into using a "superior" mainsheet system when he would rather sail with something he's more comfortable with.       

I might have a different opinion if you and I were using the same rudder. 

Photos from 2008? (Justin in Newport) and 2009 (Griffin in St. Pete).  Different rule at that point in time.

Both of those pictures are from the old "Single aft bridle, 3:1" purchase system without split end mainsheet. I sailed with that system, although neither of those pics is me.

In those days there was still only a choice of two mainsheet systems, aft bridle or mid bridle. The top guys used the aft bridle to get more leech tension BUT IT WAS BRUTAL (a) Because it had much less purchase than any of the current modern systems and required lots of arm strength to play upwind in any kind of breeze and (b) It was critical to adjust the bridle length between every race in order to keep the boom centered. Those who didn't adjust their bridle frequently would find themselves unable to point with the front of the fleet.

The split end mainsheet revolutionized Viper sailing upwind. It made the boat easier to sail upwind and had the immediate effect of levelling the playing field. It was probably on of the best upgrades the class members have ever made.

Anyone who wants to go back to the system in those pictures probably feels nostalgic about the aluminum mast as well.

[Drew Harper]

i think it's pretty silly to hamstring kevin into using a "superior" mainsheet system when he would rather sail with something he's more comfortable with.       

I might have a different opinion if you and I were using the same rudder. 

Photos from 2008? (Justin in Newport) and 2009 (Griffin in St. Pete).  Different rule at that point in time.

Both of those pictures are from the old "Single aft bridle, 3:1" purchase system without split end mainsheet. I sailed with that system, although neither of those pics is me.

In those days there was still only a choice of two mainsheet systems, aft bridle or mid bridle. The top guys used the aft bridle to get more leech tension BUT IT WAS BRUTAL (a) Because it had much less purchase than any of the current modern systems and required lots of arm strength to play upwind in any kind of breeze and (b) It was critical to adjust the bridle length between every race in order to keep the boom centered. Those who didn't adjust their bridle frequently would find themselves unable to point with the front of the fleet.

The split end mainsheet revolutionized Viper sailing upwind. It made the boat easier to sail upwind and had the immediate effect of levelling the playing field. It was probably on of the best upgrades the class members have ever made.

Anyone who wants to go back to the system in those pictures probably feels nostalgic about the aluminum mast as well.

JJ...I thought you had one of the Crook rudders?

[Jeff Jones]

I have both.

   

i think it's pretty silly to hamstring kevin into using a "superior" mainsheet system when he would rather sail with something he's more comfortable with.       

I might have a different opinion if you and I were using the same rudder. 

Photos from 2008? (Justin in Newport) and 2009 (Griffin in St. Pete).  Different rule at that point in time.

Both of those pictures are from the old "Single aft bridle, 3:1" purchase system without split end mainsheet. I sailed with that system, although neither of those pics is me.

In those days there was still only a choice of two mainsheet systems, aft bridle or mid bridle. The top guys used the aft bridle to get more leech tension BUT IT WAS BRUTAL (a) Because it had much less purchase than any of the current modern systems and required lots of arm strength to play upwind in any kind of breeze and (b) It was critical to adjust the bridle length between every race in order to keep the boom centered. Those who didn't adjust their bridle frequently would find themselves unable to point with the front of the fleet.

The split end mainsheet revolutionized Viper sailing upwind. It made the boat easier to sail upwind and had the immediate effect of levelling the playing field. It was probably on of the best upgrades the class members have ever made.

Anyone who wants to go back to the system in those pictures probably feels nostalgic about the aluminum mast as well.

JJ...I thought you had one of the Crook rudders?

[Kevin Brown]

Dave - I'll write something up and submit it.

As for all the other comments, I didn't realize how emotionally attached everyone is to paticular mainsheet systems.  All the more reason to allow different configurations, as long as they don't provide a clear advantage and don't cost a lot of money to retro-fit.

[Kevin Brown]

I just sent Dave a request with the proposed class rule change. I am also posting the proposed language and diagram here so other members can review it.

[Kevin Brown]

Here is the proposed language change.

[Jay Harrell]

Nice Kevin, thanks.  If this ever passes, I'll give it a try.   I'd love the clear center cockpit this gives you.

[Kevin Brown]

I have made a correction to the proposed langauge.  The purchase is 3:1 instead of 2:1 as originally stated.

[Jim Sears]

This would certainly make the boat easier to sail:
1) the 3:1 on boom-end makes playing main upwind more manageable.
2) allows mid-boom turning block to be moved WAY forward to give more room to tack tiller extension.

also cleans up middle of cockpit
-Jimbo

[Matt Sole]

The language for the rule is ok but it could be simplified.
Also we can not keep coming up with these rule changes without having a consensus before the rule is proposed.
The last time the mainsheet rule was changed the class head honchos had a consensus for the current rule but did not try and garner any support for second part of the vote that opened up the rule to allow the aft bridle and split tail arrangement. In fact the class governor biased the vote by telling people about his recommendation. This I believe should not be the role of the Governor to tell people how to vote.

So the following needs to be accomplished before the rule change is put to a vote;

1. Find out how many voting class members there are.
2. What percentage voted in the last rule change and what the winning margin was.
3. Ensure the is support for the rule change from the class management.
4. Garner support from the class membership so that the rule will pass.

You can always put up a rule change, there are bylaws for it. Unless there is a general class support for the change, what is the point?