2010 NA's

Lee Shuckerow · October 07, 2009, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: Jay Harrell on October 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM

Bleh. Too many of our Corinthian sailors are every bit as good as pros, so this doesn't seem a good way to divide up the fleet.

Dont let to many people see your blasphemy talk. Although I agree 100% its a way to show people that non-pros are as good or in my opinion better than pros. and hopefully someday there wont be any grumbling about kicking sailmakers and other ilk out of sailng the viper.

Tim Carter · October 07, 2009, 05:01:14 PM

Owner/Driver rule, Only 1 Cat2 or 3 per boat, If your a pro, drive your own boat & pick up a couple of us schlubs off the dock...

Fame suit on ;)

Dan Tucker · October 07, 2009, 11:47:12 PM

Quote from: Shuck on October 07, 2009, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: Jay Harrell on October 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM

Bleh. Too many of our Corinthian sailors are every bit as good as pros, so this doesn't seem a good way to divide up the fleet.

Dont let to many people see your blasphemy talk. Although I agree 100% its a way to show people that non-pros are as good or in my opinion better than pros. and hopefully someday there wont be any grumbling about kicking sailmakers and other ilk out of sailng the viper.

I agree with Jay. I don't like the idea of a Corinthian award. I'm not a second class citizen. I just don't have the time & opportunities to sail as frequently. So why not flip it the other way around? NA or Regional Champion is the corinthian all Cat 1 boat, any boat with any Cat 2 or 3 non-100% owner aboard gets the alternate prize?

BTW, I'm pretty sure no one's talking about kicking sailmakers and pros out of the class, we love all you guys. We just want you to sail boats you own at the big regattas. We want you sailing the local fleet stuff and smaller events like Lake Lanier & Lake Norman. You guys (especially you Doyle Boston guys) have been so generous in helping the weekend warriors and back of the pack get better -more consistent and competitive. And we want you to be rewarded for that.

Hmmm... the more I think about that, the more I like it...

Matt Sole · October 11, 2009, 12:59:39 AM

When I asked how everybody was getting down there I didn't mean the route but is everybody driving their boats down individually??

No group trailer coming from the North East?

Would anybody be interested in trying to put a trailer of boats together.

Imagine no 19hr drive. Fly in completely fresh.....

Matt Sole · October 11, 2009, 01:12:39 AM

I also don't want to see the Corinthian award appear. I sail with my mates who happen to be Cat 2 and 3's. Why should that preclude me from having a crack at the top prize?

Drew Harper · October 11, 2009, 11:30:07 AM

Quote from: charlotte on October 11, 2009, 07:09:28 AM
They are only going to get bigger - which is a great thing, but it will take longer to put in place, and harder to find a venue to accomodate everyone - 250 or 300 people for dinner? Then there's storing all that Goslings and ginger beer :)

I suspect the Bacardi folks might have plenty of storage laying about, but they're not giving the key to Goslings, at least while there's breath in their bodies.... :-)))

I agree with Charlotte. NA's are going to grow, perhaps exponentially once the economy heals and folks start buying new boats. I know there's discussions underway about 2011.

There's a sentiment that it's unwise to discuss the following years NA's before the current years event has run its course...I don't know on that one. Bigger brains prevail over my last remaining 11 brain cells :D

For the record, I think the class should just try to leave the Cat 1, 2 3 thing alone for a bit. I don't really see a problem in it at all. Yeah, top boat at this year's NA's was driven by a pro (though Cat 2 at this regatta by definition). I'd hate to discourage the sailmakers and odd guys, looking in from the outside at this great class.

I don't think there will be an costly escalation as the rules really are quite tight. We have a savvy tech committee and there's many within the class that know how to quell the issues that the M24's, Etchells etc. have experienced.

I've been working to try and get some of the West coast small boat sail wizards into this class. Either Dave Ullman or Bruce Cooper is likely to come sail the Leukemia Cup this Jan and I'm going to loan my boat to Jay and Pease Glaser to sail for a bit.

Personally I like sailing against the top sailors in the USA.

Everytime I sail against pros, I learn a ton, find myself faster and nipping at their heals. It's fun to find yourself at the top of the course ahead of them, desperately trying to piece together all the tactics, maneuvers and sail handling for a win.

Justin Scott · October 15, 2009, 01:04:43 PM

Quote from: soley on October 11, 2009, 01:12:39 AM
I also don't want to see the Corinthian award appear. I sail with my mates who happen to be Cat 2 and 3's. Why should that preclude me from having a crack at the top prize?

It doesn't preclude you from sailing with Cat 2 and cat 3 mates as long as you haven't paid them to sail with you (in Viper or other boat) and as long as they havent agreed to sail with you because you are a customer or employer.

The draft rule was outlined at the agm and has been circulating since Feb to all fleet captains.

I dont have precise wording in front of me but the class will be voting on this:-

1. Nobody can be "paid" to sail. This rule will apply to all Viper racing.

There will be a rarely used loophole that allows the class association to designate an event as "Professional", just in case a pro event wishes to use Vipers (Americas Cup in Vipers anyone??)
There will be an "interpretation" to allow sailmakers to crew as the strict definition of "paid" would exclude a sailmaker from crewing with their customers. The interpretation will not apply to designated "Amateur" events.

2. There will be a sparingly used "Amateur" desgnation. At a Div A (amateur) regatta the helm must either be Cat 1 or 100% owner of the boat. The only event where it is currently envisaged as Div A is the NAs.

3. No private coach boats. But Class coach boat helping all participants is allowed.

Justin Scott · October 15, 2009, 01:09:01 PM

So unlike Melges 20 (only Cat 1 drivers but you can pay as much as you like for pro crew) or Farr 40 etc.

This is a class where Cat 2 and cat 3 can come and play. BUT you can only come and play. You can't come to the Viper class and sail to earn a living or sell something. We're about fun.

Matt Sole · October 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM

I can't wait to have the play but don't pay rule set in stone. Put to rest all this Corinthian stuff.

Now is no one interested in group transportation for the North East fleet??

Drew Harper · October 15, 2009, 06:52:17 PM

Quote from: soley on October 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM
I can't wait to have the play but don't pay rule set in stone. Put to rest all this Corinthian stuff.

Now is no one interested in group transportation for the North East fleet??

I think others are interested Soley, there's just no way to effectively transport. It requires an overcab setup...there's only 2 rigs in the US doing deliveries like that. This setup only allows two boats to move.

Therein lies the rub. Somewhere along the line we REALLY need to get a 4 boat trailer setup so we can effectively move boats around this big piece of real estate known as the USA.

Jeff Jones · October 15, 2009, 07:48:10 PM

4-boat trailer is not an issue. It would involve taking the keels out of the boats. You may also have to take the spars apart and stick them in the boats. If you were ambitous, a triple-stack (6-boat rig) is not out of the question.

Justin Scott · October 15, 2009, 08:17:36 PM

If Ultra builds it, they will come.

Seriously if the class was to get rich, is this something we should invest in?

Jeff Jones · October 15, 2009, 09:09:46 PM

7K max.

If it's one thing us rednecks know.. it's weldin'

http://www.texaspridetrailers.com/Page-02-Heavy-Duty-Lowboy-Equipment-Trailers-21K-GVWR.htm extend it a bit, upgrade to nice torsion axles, add racks and your gucci.

I might just build one for the hell of it, Feb is slow.. that is, unless you give us all a reason to head East a bit early.

I thought the triad double-stack was a nice set-up. Extend that rig by 10', offset the boats and your set

Drew Harper · October 16, 2009, 09:09:09 PM

Ultra...you build it they will come.

You can offset the expense in rental per boat for the move.

The reality is, make it convertable and move 10 505's, 6 Stars, 14 420's, 4 vipers.....It makes money from Day one once the coast to coast haulers here about it.

Gary Umberger · October 20, 2009, 07:20:32 AM

Also how does everyone feel about having a set of 1,2,3 Corinthian awards.
[/quote]

Yes I'm in with the Corinthian awards.

Folks, I think it is great sailing in an event where the pros are on the same race course. I learn a lot from their participation. However, when the fleet begins to grow and you attend a national event of 50-60 boats and there are only 8 are Corinthians registered, it becomes tough to have the desire to go to the event, as a Corinthian.

I'm not as good as they(Pros) are but I'm ok with that. It doesnt bother me in the least if I'm competing with Jonathan, Jason, Charles, JPorter(Maybe not JP) etc. etc. and compete for the top corinthian trophy. It's just more fun and it gets the Corinthian to the event. I think ISAF is a great way to handle this. It takes about 5 minutes to answer the questions and print your Cat..

If a Corinthian places in the top 3 overall the Corinthian should receive 2 trophies.

Gary