Viper 640 Class Association Forums

Viper 640 Public Forums => Viper Regattas and Events => Topic started by: Tim Carter on July 07, 2009, 07:46:11 PM

Title: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on July 07, 2009, 07:46:11 PM
Are there dates and venue for the '10 N.A.'s yet???.... I did not see a linky @ the home page
(we got's to to our "planning")

Timbo
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on July 07, 2009, 10:53:33 PM
Who wants to run 'em??

Southeast somewhere?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on July 09, 2009, 07:53:07 PM
 

The South East fleet reps have a proposal for the rest of us. They were consulting their group.They were going to get back us by the end of June. I will chase them up.

Here are some clues:-

1. The location is a dress rehearsal for sailing in heaven.
2. The water is blue and warm.
3. There is a local Viper fleet.
4. It will probably attract 50+ Vipers.
5. Sadly, this year, its not on the West Coast.
6. The host club is drop dead gorgeous, including pool and tiki bar.
7. Superb Race Committee which hosts world class regattas.
8. Think about the only world class regatta sponsored by "White Rum"
9. Think of beaches, palm trees, great eating and night clubs.
10. Its not Novia Scotia. 



Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on July 09, 2009, 10:12:42 PM
Justin -> I'm sold.   

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on July 09, 2009, 10:21:18 PM
Low humidity time of year....right?

:)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on July 11, 2009, 07:16:19 AM
Someone needs to invest in a trailer, a truck and someone needs to drive the bloody thing. PITA.

I was thinking of a stock car carrier 18 wheeler sort of dealie. The sort that delivers new cars from the factory. If they're wide enough, I'd think you'd easily be able to get 6-8 Vippers on board. Outsource!

RIGHT NOW those guys would be cheap for a cross-country haul!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Greg Jackson on July 11, 2009, 03:25:15 PM
All the car carriers in my neighborhood are busy hauling repo's!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on July 12, 2009, 07:50:42 AM
Boats would need to be tilted somewhat to fit. Brian said he doesn't know what the designer was thinking when he made the boat so wide that it wouldn't fit easily into a car carrier, a container, etc...  ;)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on July 12, 2009, 10:56:57 AM
We can just slice the seat tanks off of them and bolt them on like the Longtze's LOL

Fortunately the boat is so flat that it won't take a ton of heel to make it fit. May want to have Paul look at custom cradles  for this.

Certainly if we could find a way to loads these onto rail or carriers it would make our travel lives MUCH easier. Perhaps some of the engineering types here can devise something?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Brian Gleason on July 20, 2009, 10:07:07 PM
Chris Wessels of the North American Hobie 16 association has a 40something-foot trailer in which he transports 8-9 boats to various events, including the 2010 Charlotte Harbor Regatta. Not sure how that would translate for monohulls, but it may be worth checking it out.

He hires a driver and the rest of the folks fly to the event.

I can pass on his info pending his OK, if anyone is interested.

Brian
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on July 27, 2009, 05:06:11 PM
BUMP....

Any further updates on 2010 NA's yet.....  We're all waiting  ;)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Morse on July 27, 2009, 10:46:03 PM
Say what?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on July 30, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
Its perfectly acceptable for the 2010 NA's to be annouced after the 09 NA's. I just hope it is done quickly!

Oh by the way do the US Virgin Islands class as part of North America for this purpose?
I would be sweet to have the NA's at the St Thomas YC.  A night mare to get the boats there though.

Good dream!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on July 31, 2009, 03:50:50 PM
The location of the 2010 Viper North American Championships will be....................................................................... ...announced this weekend.   Are you on tenterhooks?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on July 31, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
Give me an "M"
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on July 31, 2009, 04:09:30 PM
Ok, i'll bite

Give me an "I"
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on August 01, 2009, 02:20:29 AM
Quote from: soley on July 30, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
Its perfectly acceptable for the 2010 NA's to be annouced after the 09 NA's. I just hope it is done quickly!

Oh by the way do the US Virgin Islands class as part of North America for this purpose?
I would be sweet to have the NA's at the St Thomas YC.  A night mare to get the boats there though.

Good dream!
I'm sure the 2010 N.A.'s will be at a wonderful venue, and I hope it is announced with enough lead time for the working class to be able to schedule time off.

As far as the when, in my rosy world we would be announcing the location on the 2011 N.A.'s.....at the 2009 gathering...
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on August 02, 2009, 12:01:07 AM
I could deal with charleston in the fall as a suitable 2011 NA. I like sailing in warm water!
I hope the 2010 NA is Miami not Maine!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Chris Shaughnessy on August 02, 2009, 04:47:55 PM
I am unclear how the 2010 NA's has apparently already been decided.

Class bylaws (way I read them) indicate that a proposal may be submitted by email at any time or at the AGM or at a prior NA's.

(When is the AGM anyway ?)

They do not seem to address when is the cutoff for proposals or the timing of the exec commitee decision.

This time last year there was much 'robust debate' about Charleston vs Stamford / WLIS but it seemed too late to make a difference, Stamford was all along the favorite of the exec comm and so it was to be.

Now it seems that Miami has a similar deal in the works, I am sure it is a wonderful venue but I would like to ask if there is any truth to rumors of using future NA commitments as a basis for starting fleets in new areas ?

I don't think we need this sort of conflict coming up every year.

Can we perhaps see every proposal that was submitted and when ? 




Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Morse on August 02, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
Okay Westies, it's time for a proposal.  Which western venues sound like the best candidates?

Which clubs proposed this time and how is a selection made?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Laurent Dion on August 02, 2009, 10:51:11 PM
Quote from: Viperdad on August 02, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
Okay Westies, it's time for a proposal.  Which western venues sound like the best candidates?

Which clubs proposed this time and how is a selection made?

Alamitos Bay Yacht Club looks the best venue in the West - from what i have seen so far..
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on August 03, 2009, 01:49:33 AM
As a ABYC member, I woulld love to see the club host the N.A.'s.  In reality were probably talking a 2012 time frame. 

I have been involved with hosting N.A.'s and Worlds and one desirable elemet is that the host culb has a large and established fleet of the class in question.  It allows there to be charter boats availible and a large pool of class members to help support/volunter at the regatta.

One of the problems of having the "Class Championships" at a exotic local, however great the sailing is, the likleyhood of being able to charter a boat is slight and the alternate coasters are looking a 3 k mile road trip.

You would find ABYC a excellent host and wonderfull Viper conditions,  but the immeditate fleet in a 15mi radius is 4 boats, a fifth may be in play soon.  We still have a ways to go...
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Glenn Selvin on August 03, 2009, 03:38:45 PM

On the east coast, more and more people will to see the fun happening with big one design starts, and will want to join in the fun by buying themselves a Viper.

Not so here on the west coast.  As long as the Viper class will continue not to establish at West Coast regattas, people will perceive them as an east coast class.  ABYC has two large regattas coming up...  Labor Day regatta Sept. 5-6, and Turkey Day regatta middle of November.

I'm sure that Richmond YC has a similar schedule...  

Lets see how it plays out...
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jason Weisberg on August 03, 2009, 04:14:12 PM
  The growth of class is spreading like a wildfire.  Be patient.  Boats have shipped to Australia, Cowes, Canada and one now going to Switzerland.  Before you ask, my point is that because of all the hard promotion and dedication of All the class members in all regions it generates great interest.    People read about 35-50 boats on a line most get curious at the least.    The East coasters will travel West.  There has to be some Charter boats.  I have two boats one of which is for Charter for the 2009 NA's you want it?  Boat finished 10th at CRW.  I bought a second boat to fleet build. I am happy to sell it to anyone on the West Coast that wants it but the only caveat is it must be raced in the 2009 NAs by the new owner.  I don't care where it goes as long as it gets sailed.  That is how you build fleets. I'm not made of money but the class members need to do these types of things in order to promote itself.  
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on August 03, 2009, 04:51:21 PM
Three years ago, we heard all the same arguments about how the Viper would not succeed on the East Coast.

"Its only a one-design class in Marblehead. Everywhere else its nothing other than a PHRF Rocket"

"The only large regattas are in Marblehead. Every NAs are in Marblehead. It will disappear from everywhere else"

"All the class officers are based in Marblehead. They won't represent a national class"

Blah blah blah.  I got so mad with one pessimist on sailing Anarchy that I had a bet that we would have a 25 boat start outside of Marblehead within 2 years (at that time the NAs had attracted 11 boats! and the largest regatta outside Marblehead had been 6 boats at the St Pete NOOD, 4 from Marblehead).

I'm pleased to say that to my incredible surprise he remembered the bet, and this May I recieved a gift certificate for $100 to APS and a nice note, shortly after Charleston.

The Viper is a VERY RECENT phenomena. In 2 1/2 years we went from an 11 boat NAs at the Marblehead NOOD to a 34 boat start at Charleston Race Week.

This September is two firsts:-
It is the first time we have a dedicated Viper North American Championships.
It is the first time the NAs have been hosted outside of Marblehead.
So a huge thanks to the Stamford YC and IHYC fleets. It will be a great event and a lot of fun.....culminating 2 years of growth for the WLIS fleet.

There will be plenty of other firsts in the class in the future.

There surely will be a first NAs on the West Coast.
There surely will be a first West Coast Championships.

In the meantime there will be another first when the South East Vipers host the first NAs in the South East, celebrating their growth and momentum by hosting an amazing NAs in Miami this April.    

This West vs East coast thing gets no traction in the Viper class. We view the challenge of promoting and supporting the expansion  of the class on the West Coast as no different from the challenge of seeding and growing the class in the South east.

We will find regional spark plugs. They will find friends. Those friends will find friends. We are such a young class, we were all prepared to be innovators and part of a new direction in one design sailing.  We all bought our boats because we wanted to put the fun back into racing in one design. I know the West coast sailing scene and I know they put at least as much importance on fun as the East coast.  

Trust me, the West coast sparkplugs talk and email every week to the East coast spark plugs. We share ideas and camraderie. Get a Viper and you will see.

To all those pessimists on the West coast. I'm ready for another bet. The Viper is better placed for the West Coast over the next two years than  the East coast two years ago.
1. You have a West Coast dealer/agent. He 's a great guy giving great service, who has negotiated an amazing price with Rondar and is personaly taking zippo margin for his troubles so you can seed  your fleets.  We would have loved that. We had no local service back then. We bought our boats from the UK, individualy at great expense and picked them up from the docks, negotiated thru customs etc. ourselves for the love of the game. Now we are spoilt rotten with Rondar North america.
2.  You have a nascent regatta circuit , with what? 10 boats going to the fisrt sportboat fest.   We celebrated our first 6 boat regatta !    
3. You have all the support of the East Coast infrastructure, website etc...which simply didnt exist 2 1/2 years ago.

Its a great boat.......folks will join the class when they try racing them.....but for the west coast, there is a little more infrastructure in place than when it started on the East coast.

Finally: Part of our success on the East Coast was that we underpromised and over delivered.   We smiled politely when the Laser SB3 guys were talking about "huge fleets" .  In the Vipers we set ourselves the task of having a few local small fleets and agreeing to meet for a few understated but really fun "rendez vous" regattas.  We made sure that we would have a lot of fun if 6 of us got together for racing. We celebrated a 10 boat start. We got a little more aggresive and set ourselves the target of 15 boats at the 2007 NAs, and high fived when 18 showed up.  In 2008  we surprised the sports boat world when 26 boats showed up at the NAs

We got some traction in the South East and 8 -12 of us gathered at Charleston Race Week in 2008. We had such a good time and the word was getting out about the Viper in the South east that we accepted the organizers challenge to get to 25 boats in 2009.  34 Vipers showed.  

The growth happens because the boats are fun, fast, easy and affordable.
The regattas are fun, not because of any title, but because you only need to get five to six Vipes together and you are going to have fun, tight, close racing. Then you can get 10 togther. Then 15. Then 20 and hello, suddenly everyone wants a Viper.

Good luck...and I cant wait to be invited to a West Coast regatta, whatever it is called!


 

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on August 03, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
I am sure Viperdad, Finnster and others will join me in carring the torch for the 1st West Coast N.A.'s @ ABYC.....

When do you folks want to shoot for, Summer 2011 or 12 ???

Should Texas have a shot 1st??

Ultimatly the class starts moving it to different regions each year i.e.

2009 South East

2010 ???

2011 Gulf Coast

2012 West Coast

2013 North east.......

This will also draw regional interest in the class, we just need to figure out how to have some loaner boats in areas of small representation
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Morse on August 03, 2009, 08:22:01 PM
2010 SE
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on August 03, 2009, 10:30:18 PM
Quote from: Timbo on August 03, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
I am sure Viperdad, Finnster and others will join me in carring the torch for the 1st West Coast N.A.'s @ ABYC.....

When do you folks want to shoot for, Summer 2011 or 12 ???

Should Texas have a shot 1st??

Ultimatly the class starts moving it to different regions each year i.e.

2009 South East

2010 ???

2011 Gulf Coast

2012 West Coast

2013 North east.......

This will also draw regional interest in the class, we just need to figure out how to have some loaner boats in areas of small representation
This sort of approach has been the intention of the class and officers that I've spoken with over the past couple of years. There is a balance between using NA's and big regattas as tools for local fleet growth vs. having an established base to organize and host. Remember, this is a volunteer run class, so local fleet volunteers to organize large events ARE important.

I've just recently been hearing the first whispers of "international". Someday, we'll be having this same debate about World Championships!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on August 20, 2009, 01:01:22 PM
2010 Viper North Americans hosted by Coral Reef YC , Biscayne Bay , Miami,
March

It will be biggest yet. Be there.

Oh and dont forget to read the website page that deals with factors that influence the choice of location for future NAs. It includes:-

The level of participation by the host fleet in previous North American Championships and sanctioned regattas
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on August 29, 2009, 02:20:04 PM
The Bacardi Cup in Miami is one of the worlds legendary regattas, up there with Kiel week, CORK, the Finn Gold Cup, the POW etc. Its been hosted by the Bacardi family since 1927, first in Havana and subsequently at Coral Reef YC and up till now it has only been open to the Star Class.  

A couple of months ago, the Bacardis and CRYC sat down to discuss the future of this event.  Rather than rein in the regatta to reflect the current economic climate they decided (after some generous libation from the factory) to expand it and include a couple more classes.

More libation. Then someone at the meeting pondered "The Star is a timeless classic. So why not include a modern , state of the art boat. Something that has a lot in common with the Star. A flat out race boat. A hiking, planing keel boat. But something exciting that says the Bacardi Cup is as relevent today as it was in 1927".  "Si si." enthused  the Bacardi PR advisors. The speaker continued "Something that has the same grass roots enthusiasm as the Star. Something that the Star sailors will respect and admire on the hallowed race course of the historic Trofeo Bacardi. "  "Respect!" agreed everyone pounding their fists and empty glasses on the polished table.

As the glasses were refilled, the speaker passed round some pictures taken the previous March at the Coral Reef Cup. In the hushed silence all eyes turned towards the patriarch at the head of the table as he held up a photograph of a boat planing down wind in a sea of spray. After a pause, he lifted his glass and said  "This boat is worthy".

Ladies, Gentlemen and Viperers :-

The Viper Class has been invited to participate in the Bacardi Race Week at Miami and we are honored to accept.

More details to follow. This is a very important event for the Bacardi company and something close to the heart of the Bacardi family. They will be supply more details in press releases etc, but we have seen some preliminary drawings of the race village they intend to build and the parties and events they intend to throw. It will be quite a trip. This will be heavily sponsored and the entry fees will be evry reasonable.


40 +  Vipers on Biscayne Bay. Are you excited?

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on August 29, 2009, 04:51:33 PM
Justin,

Hat's off 
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on August 31, 2009, 08:50:01 AM
YES! I AM excited!

Stuff Key West...
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on September 13, 2009, 01:38:27 PM
Location is Miami -dates are March 8 thru 13.

The regatta sponsor is excited we will confirm early next week
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on October 06, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
Currently the Barcardi Cup is scheduled for March 8-13.....

Should Left Coast Vipers start making arraingment's for the 2010 N.A.'s in Miami during the second week of March???
5 month's away....
;)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on October 06, 2009, 09:04:22 AM
I say let's get the dates and NOR set in stone. The sooner we have a plan the more boats will be there.

Also how does everyone feel about having a set of 1,2,3 Corinthian awards.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 06, 2009, 10:06:20 AM
So what does being a Corinthian entail??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on October 06, 2009, 11:09:24 AM
Simply all non Pro Sailors.

And of course being courteous on the water. Just Kidding.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on October 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM

2010 Viper 640 North Americans: March 10-13, 2010 at Coral Reef Yacht Club, as part of the Barcardi Miami Race Week which is March 8-13.


Quote from: Shuck on October 06, 2009, 09:04:22 AM
Also how does everyone feel about having a set of 1,2,3 Corinthian awards.

Bleh.   Too many of our Corinthian sailors are every bit as good as pros, so this doesn't seem a good way to divide up the fleet.  

It would be nice to have something for those of us in the back to shoot for (beside great wind and blue water).    How about "high score" awards for the 3 boats with the highest total scores not counting DNFs.   I would actually stand a chance and my friends at work would never know that "high score" wasn't a good thing!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on October 06, 2009, 05:47:35 PM
Thanks Jay,  Now we have dates to plan on....

As for the "Corinthian's", I think they should be recognized....If you're the top corinthian and ended up 4th, I thinks that's great and you get deserve your 4th keeper, but you should get additional snaps for holding your own with those pro farkers.

I know the Etchell's class is doing that now, because it's deep with industry types....
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 06, 2009, 11:26:00 PM
Ok so how the hell is everybody getting their boats down there?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on October 07, 2009, 08:18:40 AM
Quote from: soley on October 06, 2009, 11:26:00 PM
Ok so how the hell is everybody getting their boats down there?

I-95 goes all the way, right?  :-)  But I plan to take I-75 myself.

Next question - what are the best places to stay?  Anything affordable within walking distance of the club?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on October 07, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
Assuming your in the LIS area Jay's right.. 95 all the way.  Est. 1200 miles?

Georgia - 75 to 95. Est. 670 miles?

Texans - 10 to 75 to 90.  Est 1400 miles?

West Coasties - 8 to 35 to 10 to 75 to 95.  For the Diego boys it's 2600 miles, Arizona 2300 miles

Assuming these big events are going to move around the country, you might want to invest in a new set of tires.

What was your question again?

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on October 07, 2009, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: ultraracer613um on October 07, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
Assuming your in the LIS area Jay's right.. 95 all the way.  Est. 1200 miles?

Georgia - 75 to 95. Est. 670 miles?

Texans - 10 to 75 to 90.  Est 1400 miles?

West Coasties - 8 to 35 to 10 to 75 to 95.  For the Diego boys it's 2600 miles, Arizona 2300 miles

Assuming these big events are going to move around the country, you might want to invest in a new set of tires.

What was your question again?



Only 3113 miles for us NorCal Sailors :-((
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Glenn Vanheel on October 07, 2009, 12:36:06 PM
Quote from: BoomSlang on October 07, 2009, 12:21:09 PM
Quote from: ultraracer613um on October 07, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
Assuming your in the LIS area Jay's right.. 95 all the way.  Est. 1200 miles?

Georgia - 75 to 95. Est. 670 miles?

Texans - 10 to 75 to 90.  Est 1400 miles?

West Coasties - 8 to 35 to 10 to 75 to 95.  For the Diego boys it's 2600 miles, Arizona 2300 miles

Assuming these big events are going to move around the country, you might want to invest in a new set of tires.

What was your question again?



Only 3113 miles for us NorCal Sailors :-((

if you leave now you just might get there before first gun!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on October 07, 2009, 01:14:43 PM
Y'all are making me feel privileged to drive "only" 670 miles each way.

Google maps says that Austin is actually closer than Marblehead by about 2 hours.  And don't forget St Louis area at 1200 miles.  Who would have thought that Miami was centrally located.

This thing ought to be BIG!  Or at least everyone will be equally road-weary.

Quote from: ultraracer613um on October 07, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
Assuming your in the LIS area Jay's right.. 95 all the way.  Est. 1200 miles?

Georgia - 75 to 95. Est. 670 miles?

Texans - 10 to 75 to 90.  Est 1400 miles?

West Coasties - 8 to 35 to 10 to 75 to 95.  For the Diego boys it's 2600 miles, Arizona 2300 miles

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on October 07, 2009, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: Jay Harrell on October 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM

Bleh.   Too many of our Corinthian sailors are every bit as good as pros, so this doesn't seem a good way to divide up the fleet. 


Dont let to many people see your blasphemy talk.  Although I agree 100% its a way to show people that non-pros are as good or in my opinion better than pros. and hopefully someday there wont be any grumbling about kicking sailmakers and other ilk out of sailng the viper.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on October 07, 2009, 05:01:14 PM
Owner/Driver rule,  Only 1 Cat2 or 3 per boat, If your a pro, drive your own boat & pick up a couple of us schlubs off the dock...

Fame suit on  ;)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on October 07, 2009, 11:47:12 PM
Quote from: Shuck on October 07, 2009, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: Jay Harrell on October 06, 2009, 03:21:02 PM

Bleh.   Too many of our Corinthian sailors are every bit as good as pros, so this doesn't seem a good way to divide up the fleet. 


Dont let to many people see your blasphemy talk.  Although I agree 100% its a way to show people that non-pros are as good or in my opinion better than pros. and hopefully someday there wont be any grumbling about kicking sailmakers and other ilk out of sailng the viper.
I agree with Jay. I don't like the idea of a Corinthian award. I'm not a second class citizen. I just don't have the time & opportunities to sail as frequently. So why not flip it the other way around? NA or Regional Champion is the corinthian all Cat 1 boat, any boat with any Cat 2 or 3 non-100% owner aboard gets the alternate prize?

BTW, I'm pretty sure no one's talking about kicking sailmakers and pros out of the class, we love all you guys. We just want you to sail boats you own at the big regattas. We want you sailing the local fleet stuff and smaller events like Lake Lanier & Lake Norman. You guys (especially you Doyle Boston guys) have been so generous in helping the weekend warriors and back of the pack get better -more consistent and competitive. And we want you to be rewarded for that.

Hmmm... the more I think about that, the more I like it...
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 11, 2009, 12:59:39 AM
When I asked how everybody was getting down there I didn't mean the route but is everybody driving their boats down individually??

No group trailer coming from the North East?

Would anybody be interested in trying to put a trailer of boats together.

Imagine no 19hr drive. Fly in completely fresh.....

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 11, 2009, 01:12:39 AM
I also don't want to see the Corinthian award appear. I sail with my mates who happen to be Cat 2 and 3's. Why should that preclude me from having a crack at the top prize?

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on October 11, 2009, 11:30:07 AM
Quote from: charlotte on October 11, 2009, 07:09:28 AM
They are only going to get bigger - which is a great thing, but it will take longer to put in place, and harder to find a venue to accomodate everyone - 250 or 300 people for dinner?  Then there's storing all that Goslings and ginger beer :)

I suspect the Bacardi folks might have plenty of storage laying about, but they're not giving the key to Goslings, at least while there's breath in their bodies.... :-)))

I agree with Charlotte. NA's are going to grow, perhaps exponentially once the economy heals and folks start buying new boats. I know there's discussions underway about 2011.

There's a sentiment that it's unwise to discuss the following years NA's before the current years event has run its course...I don't know on that one. Bigger brains prevail over my last remaining 11 brain cells :D

For the record, I think the class should just try to leave the Cat 1, 2 3 thing alone for a bit. I don't really see a problem in it at all. Yeah, top boat at this year's NA's was driven by a pro (though Cat 2 at this regatta by definition). I'd hate to discourage the sailmakers and odd guys, looking in from the outside at this great class.

I don't think there will be an costly escalation as the rules really are quite tight. We have a savvy tech committee and there's many within the class that know how to quell the issues that the M24's, Etchells etc. have experienced.

I've been working to try and get some of the West coast small boat sail wizards into this class. Either Dave Ullman or Bruce Cooper is likely to come sail the Leukemia Cup this Jan and I'm going to loan my boat to Jay and Pease Glaser to sail for a bit.

Personally I like sailing against the top sailors in the USA.

Everytime I sail against pros, I learn a ton, find myself faster and nipping at their heals. It's fun to find yourself at the top of the course ahead of them, desperately trying to piece together all the tactics, maneuvers and sail handling for a win.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on October 15, 2009, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: soley on October 11, 2009, 01:12:39 AM
I also don't want to see the Corinthian award appear. I sail with my mates who happen to be Cat 2 and 3's. Why should that preclude me from having a crack at the top prize?



It doesn't preclude you from sailing with Cat 2 and cat 3 mates as long as you haven't paid them to sail with you (in Viper or other boat) and as long as they havent agreed to sail with you because you are a customer or employer.


The draft rule was outlined at the agm and has been circulating since Feb to all fleet captains.

I dont have precise wording in front of me but the class will be voting on this:-

1. Nobody can be "paid" to sail.   This rule will apply to all Viper racing.

There will be a rarely used loophole that allows the class association to designate an event as "Professional", just in case a pro event wishes to use Vipers (Americas Cup in Vipers anyone??)
There will be an "interpretation" to allow sailmakers to crew as the strict definition of "paid" would exclude a sailmaker from crewing with their customers. The interpretation will not apply to designated "Amateur" events.

2. There will be a sparingly used "Amateur" desgnation. At a Div A (amateur) regatta the helm must either be Cat 1 or 100% owner of the boat. The only event where it is currently envisaged as Div A is the NAs.

3. No private coach boats. But Class coach boat helping all participants is allowed. 
 
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on October 15, 2009, 01:09:01 PM
So unlike Melges 20 (only Cat 1 drivers but you can pay as much as you like for pro crew) or Farr 40 etc.

This is a class where Cat 2 and cat 3 can come and play. BUT you can only come and play. You can't come to the Viper class and sail to earn a living or sell something. We're about fun.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM
I can't wait to have the play but don't pay rule set in stone. Put to rest all this Corinthian stuff.

Now is no one interested in group transportation for the North East fleet??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on October 15, 2009, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: soley on October 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM
I can't wait to have the play but don't pay rule set in stone. Put to rest all this Corinthian stuff.

Now is no one interested in group transportation for the North East fleet??

I think others are interested Soley, there's just no way to effectively transport. It requires an overcab setup...there's only 2 rigs in the US doing deliveries like that. This setup only allows two boats to move.

Therein lies the rub. Somewhere along the line we REALLY need to get a 4 boat trailer setup so we can effectively move boats around this big piece of real estate known as the USA.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on October 15, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
4-boat trailer is not an issue.   It would involve taking the keels out of the boats.  You may also have to take the spars apart and stick them in the boats.  If you were ambitous, a triple-stack (6-boat rig) is not out of the question.

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on October 15, 2009, 08:17:36 PM
If Ultra builds it, they will come.

Seriously if the class was to get rich, is this something we should invest in?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on October 15, 2009, 09:09:46 PM
7K max.

If it's one thing us rednecks know..  it's weldin'  

http://www.texaspridetrailers.com/Page-02-Heavy-Duty-Lowboy-Equipment-Trailers-21K-GVWR.htm  extend it a bit, upgrade to nice torsion axles, add racks and your gucci.

I might just build one for the hell of it, Feb is slow..   that is, unless you give us all a reason to head East a bit early.

I thought the triad double-stack was a nice set-up.  Extend that rig by 10', offset the boats and your set
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on October 16, 2009, 09:09:09 PM
Ultra...you build it they will come.

You can offset the expense in rental per boat for the move.

The reality is, make it convertable and move 10 505's, 6 Stars, 14 420's, 4 vipers.....It makes money from Day one once the coast to coast haulers here about it.

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Gary Umberger on October 20, 2009, 07:20:32 AM

Also how does everyone feel about having a set of 1,2,3 Corinthian awards.
[/quote]

Yes I'm in with the Corinthian awards.

Folks, I think it is great sailing in an event where the pros are on the same race course. I learn a lot from their participation. However, when the fleet begins to grow and you attend a national event of 50-60 boats and there are only 8 are Corinthians registered, it becomes tough to have the desire to go to the event, as a Corinthian.

I'm not as good as they(Pros) are but I'm ok with that. It doesnt bother me in the least if I'm competing with Jonathan, Jason, Charles, JPorter(Maybe not JP) etc. etc. and compete for the top corinthian trophy.  It's just more fun and it gets the Corinthian to the event. I think ISAF is a great way to handle this. It takes about 5 minutes to answer the questions and print your Cat..

If a Corinthian places in the top 3 overall the Corinthian should receive 2 trophies.

Gary
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 20, 2009, 10:18:04 AM
The ISAF handles this in a good way if you are a Cat 1 only!! 2's and 3's get screwed.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on October 22, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
Quote from: soley on October 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM
I can't wait to have the play but don't pay rule set in stone. Put to rest all this Corinthian stuff.

Now is no one interested in group transportation for the North East fleet??
Corinthain rules have nothing to do with winning the top awards in an event. It is to provide the top amateur boats a possible award for sailing if they arent in top three. Its just one way to not discourage all amateur teams from participating because they are intimidated. Whomever wins the event whether they are pro or amateur still wins. I normally sail with a pro so i definitely dont want to exclude us!
I will say again to all of the amateurs like myself. The top guys in this class are very good and most of them are not pros!!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on October 22, 2009, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: Justin on October 15, 2009, 01:04:43 PM
1. Nobody can be "paid" to sail.   This rule will apply to all Viper racing.

There will be a rarely used loophole that allows the class association to designate an event as "Professional", just in case a pro event wishes to use Vipers (Americas Cup in Vipers anyone??)
There will be an "interpretation" to allow sailmakers to crew as the strict definition of "paid" would exclude a sailmaker from crewing with their customers. The interpretation will not apply to designated "Amateur" events.

2. There will be a sparingly used "Amateur" designation. At a Div A (amateur) regatta the helm must either be Cat 1 or 100% owner of the boat. The only event where it is currently envisaged as Div A is the NAs.

3. No private coach boats. But Class coach boat helping all participants is allowed. 
 

Just wanted to chime in on some of these "new rules"
We should all remember what rules have helped this class grow. I for one got into the class for these rules in particular
-All pros are welcome to sail anytime
-Advertising on sails is welcome
-Anyone can drive any boat any time, "There were a lot of teams at NAs who switched drivers every race, which I think is awesome that two people can sail  in multiple positions on the boat and the boat can do equally well."
-Good class rules that seem to use some common sense rather than political nonsense.

So in discussing the changes to the rules above:
Rule 1-Nobody can be paid to sail.
What does it matter if someone is paid to sail, in my experience paid pros are no better than a non paid decent sailor. And the facts of the ISAF rating system is that it is a joke. If you work at West Marine your a Pro? I you scrape barnacles off of boats at a boat yard your a Pro? Do a little stitching at a sail loft.........
I personally have no desire to ever pay someone to sail. But if a buddy of mine is a pro and we've been sailing with and against each other for the better part of 18 years I dont want any thought that they cant be on the helm or crewing with me.
And always the all encompassing rule when money is involved noone can keep track of what you're paying for!

Rule 2- Class A for NAs? If my partner in the boat is a pro and has driven every regatta on the boat that year he cant sail NAs? Thats quite a slap in the face.


Rule 3- No coach boats? If we had a no coaching on the water rule wouldnt that get your point across. In this class in particular it seems silly to get rid of coach boats all together. Most people dont have motors.
And if someone decides to bring their own support boat it helps the whole class.
We brought our support boat down to Charleston race Week last year and had Tac Boston at the helm. He gave us some good input but at times I thought he was coaching other boats more than he was helping us. He also rescued some folks who had some misfortune with shallow spots.

Any way thats my 4 cents

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: John Porter on October 22, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
I have a question for all you rule Gurus. 

I am ramping up coaching for the Opti kids in Savannah.  The Savannah Yacht Club has a coach boat, but they want me to be a paid employee for insurance purposes for me to use it.

If I'm paid as a employee (even though I don't want to be) won't this change my status as a Category 1?  Should I allow this or fight the club to open their insurance so I can still remain an amatuer (and play with other non-amatuers).

What's your thoughts?

JP
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Pai on October 22, 2009, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: cool beans - V26 on October 22, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
I have a question for all you rule Gurus. 

I am ramping up coaching for the Opti kids in Savannah.  The Savannah Yacht Club has a coach boat, but they want me to be a paid employee for insurance purposes for me to use it.

If I'm paid as a employee (even though I don't want to be) won't this change my status as a Category 1?  Should I allow this or fight the club to open their insurance so I can still remain an amatuer (and play with other non-amatuers).

What's your thoughts?

JP

Your status as Group 1 would not be changed because though you will be officially labeled as "working" for the Savannah Yacht Club in the Opti class, you will have maintained an independent "racing" status from that class:

Key Points
-You will be "paid for work" that does not involve competing in a race.
-Though you may manage, train, prep, and maintain the Opti's, you will not compete in that boat or "team."

The Fine Print
Group 3
A Group 3 competitor is a competitor who, within the Qualification
Period
(a) has been paid for work that includes:
(i) competing in a race,
(ii) managing, training, practicing, tuning, testing, maintaining or
otherwise preparing a boat, its crew, sails or equipment for
racing, and then competed on that boat, or in a team
competition, in a boat of the same team; or
(b) has been paid for allowing his or her name or likeness to be used
in connection with his or her sailing performance, sail racing results
or sailing reputation, for the advertising or promotion of any
product or service; or
(c) has publicly identified himself or herself as a Group 3 competitor or
as professional racing sailor; or
(d) has been paid either for services in connection with the provision of
a boat for Racing or for the provision of the boat itself and then
competed on that boat, or in a team competition, in a boat of the
same team.
However a Group 1 competitor who, as an owner of a boat, is
occasionally paid a charter fee for the provision of that boat for a
racing competition shall remain a Group 1 competitor provided he
does not steer that boat in that competition. If the competition is a
team event this dispensation shall only apply if he does not steer
any boat in the same team as the boat chartered.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on October 23, 2009, 11:32:33 AM
Sorry John,

You really shouldn't have told us this. I am filing your new Cat 3 status with ISAF. You are no longer allowed to sail your Viper. I have to come take charge.

Once again, sorry.

Please have the boat delivered to Miami for the NA's and can you wax her up for me too ;-)

Best to you . . . Drew

Quote from: cool beans - V26 on October 22, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
I have a question for all you rule Gurus.  

I am ramping up coaching for the Opti kids in Savannah.  The Savannah Yacht Club has a coach boat, but they want me to be a paid employee for insurance purposes for me to use it.

If I'm paid as a employee (even though I don't want to be) won't this change my status as a Category 1?  Should I allow this or fight the club to open their insurance so I can still remain an amatuer (and play with other non-amatuers).

What's your thoughts?

JP

'Tis a nice thing you're doing John. If you haven't read 'Saving Sailing' it's worth the read and just what is jsut what you are managing to do with your volunteerism. ...thank you...d
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: John Porter on October 23, 2009, 08:08:35 PM
Thanks for the help guys, and drew, for the right price, just about anything I own can be yours :-)

JP
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on October 26, 2009, 10:12:32 AM
Doesn't the ISAF have a special dispensation for paid Junior and collegiate coaches??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on October 27, 2009, 08:46:05 AM
The beauty about the Viper class is that John's racing is not affected by his ISAF category.

1. As long as he is not paid, he can crew on anyones boat at any time. Even if he is Cat Three he could drive anyone's boat at any regatta except designated amateur regattas, provided he is not paid.
2. He 100% owns his own boat so he can drive at any regatta, including a designated amateur regatta.

How much is Savannah paying anyhow?

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on October 28, 2009, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: Justin on October 27, 2009, 08:46:05 AM
2. He 100% owns his own boat so he can drive at any regatta, including a designated amateur regatta


I'm a little foggy on this....  What would a "designated amateur regatta" be ???
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Morse on October 28, 2009, 10:18:33 PM
It would seem to reason that a designated amateur regatta would be free on "non-amateur" or pro types.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on October 30, 2009, 09:34:54 PM
Barcardi preliminary web site...

http://www.miamisailingweek.com/index.html
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on November 11, 2009, 09:20:06 PM
I am a little concerned about the upcoming 2010 NA's. Everything looks very nice and very posh party tents ashore. My concern is if the atmosphere will be similar to the 09 NA's. The parties this year were outstanding with the Yacht Clubs pretty much letting us have the run of the place. At both parties I was absolutely wasted, especially Saturday night. I made a complete arse of my self on several occasions but I was still not asked to leave. I am a little uncertain if Coral Reef can cope with the Viper level of revelry.
Anyone partied their arse off at this location before?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on November 11, 2009, 10:53:42 PM
Soley....... Miami !  Star Class!  Coral Reef! Bacardi ! The question is can the Vipers hold our own.  These guys invented Party. We are talking about residents of a city that lives each night as if it is their last.

Someone link him to the pictures posted on SA from the Coral Reef Cup. 
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on November 12, 2009, 03:24:17 AM
Just checking thats all
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Pai on November 12, 2009, 09:55:00 AM
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2009, 10:53:42 PM
Soley....... Miami !  Star Class!  Coral Reef! Bacardi ! The question is can the Vipers hold our own.  These guys invented Party. We are talking about residents of a city that lives each night as if it is their last.

Someone link him to the pictures posted on SA from the Coral Reef Cup. 

To add to Justin's comment:

You must not forget, to party with Tito and the Bacardi family has been a historical privilege few have attended. My very good friend has done Bacardi Cup in the Star Class and just the stories they have make it sound like a ridiculous overstocked booze dream. That in then having the skippers go out to Coconut Grove afterward, picking fights with random people at bars, and then having their crew go in for the finish. Apparently during Bacardi Cup they have parties on Monday and Wednesday where ANYTHING licensed by Bacardi is present and FREE. An open bar to your heart's desire. Let me divulge into the types of fine spirits they will have:

Bacardi rum- Bacardi 151, 8, Anejo, Big Apple, Coconut, Limon, O, Razzberry, Select, Silver, Vanilla
Grey goose
Dewar's
Bombay Sapphire
Cazadores
Martini


Hay Preguntas?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Eric Vigrass on November 12, 2009, 11:03:53 AM
Bacardi have anything "spicey"?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Pai on November 12, 2009, 12:08:31 PM
Quote from: 119CoolerCaddy on November 12, 2009, 11:03:53 AM
Bacardi have anything "spicey"?


I'm sure there's enough stuff to make it spicey, oh and don't forget, they will probably have gallons of your favorite premixed drink, Bacardi Hurricane.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Eric Vigrass on November 12, 2009, 12:56:00 PM
Jackpot!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on November 12, 2009, 05:26:37 PM
Snr Tito says "Please stay in a hotel that is walking distance from the Yacht Club because in Cuba we know how to party"
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on November 13, 2009, 05:46:30 PM
This is what I wanted to hear!!

It sounds freakin AWESOME!! I am very excited. I plan to keep my booze levels up from Partying at the Heineken in St Maarten jump on the plane and carry on in Miami.

Can we organise for Bacardi to hand out free booze on the way out to the race course??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on November 13, 2009, 06:15:06 PM
Spent a bit of time on the website last night..  looking at pictures, watching video's - that going to be one cool regatta.

I think registration is open?

Wonder how long it will take for us to hit 30 and 40.  Last year we had 20 vipes signed up for CRW before any other class reached 5.  That was pretty cool and it's another thing i really like about this fleet.   
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on November 13, 2009, 11:39:14 PM
Damn, this sounds better all the time. Check your liver at the border!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Somers Kempe on November 20, 2009, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2009, 10:53:42 PM
Soley....... Miami !  Star Class!  Coral Reef! Bacardi ! The question is can the Vipers hold our own.  These guys invented Party. We are talking about residents of a city that lives each night as if it is their last.

Someone link him to the pictures posted on SA from the Coral Reef Cup. 

I like the sounds of a "Viper rendezvous at South Beach" on Friday night!
Any charters available?  Promise to attend the Skippers Meeting this time...

Somers
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on November 20, 2009, 04:57:41 PM
Speaking of signing up for NAs. Is the registration form ready for it? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on November 20, 2009, 06:34:15 PM
Quote from: fairdinkum on November 20, 2009, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2009, 10:53:42 PM
Soley....... Miami !  Star Class!  Coral Reef! Bacardi ! The question is can the Vipers hold our own.  These guys invented Party. We are talking about residents of a city that lives each night as if it is their last.

Someone link him to the pictures posted on SA from the Coral Reef Cup. 

I like the sounds of a "Viper rendezvous at South Beach" on Friday night!
Any charters available?  Promise to attend the Skippers Meeting this time...

Somers

Fair Dinkum,

You can have my boat again, but I dont care about the skippers meeting. I would merely ask that my shirt remains on my back.

If you look at the schedule on the website you will see that you are going to have to pace yourselves this year. This is a 7 day party with some sailing thrown in.

I haven't quite figured out how the Bacardi sponsored bar hopping works but I will ask if upstairs at Mangoes can be included for your benefit.   

Yours,

Shirtless in SouthBeach

Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Somers Kempe on November 26, 2009, 03:16:08 PM
Quote from: Justin on November 20, 2009, 06:34:15 PM
Quote from: fairdinkum on November 20, 2009, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2009, 10:53:42 PM
Soley....... Miami !  Star Class!  Coral Reef! Bacardi ! The question is can the Vipers hold our own.  These guys invented Party. We are talking about residents of a city that lives each night as if it is their last.

Someone link him to the pictures posted on SA from the Coral Reef Cup.  

I like the sounds of a "Viper rendezvous at South Beach" on Friday night!
Any charters available?  Promise to attend the Skippers Meeting this time...

Somers

Fair Dinkum,

You can have my boat again, but I dont care about the skippers meeting. I would merely ask that my shirt remains on my back.

If you look at the schedule on the website you will see that you are going to have to pace yourselves this year. This is a 7 day party with some sailing thrown in.

I haven't quite figured out how the Bacardi sponsored bar hopping works but I will ask if upstairs at Mangoes can be included for your benefit.  

Yours,

Shirtless in SouthBeach



Consider last year a warm up!  :)  Although by the sounds of it, it may be a bit tough to sneak in a few D&S!

I can guarantee the charter for your boat - and strong possibility for a second charter from other interested parties.  Firming up desire now but if you hear of anything available, give me a shout.

PS - can't guarentee where your shirt ends up... ;)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on December 05, 2009, 10:36:00 PM
A few points here;

1. It appears we are racing one day less than the Star but one more than the Melges 20/24 and J24. Racing Wed - Sat practice on Tuesday, correct?

2. Will we have our own start line or will we share with the Melgi and J?

3. Why the hell did they invite the J24??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Glenn Vanheel on December 06, 2009, 01:28:23 PM
 
3. Why the hell did they invite the J24??
[/quote]

so the other classes could get in a solid lunch break between races!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on December 06, 2009, 02:43:35 PM
Ha ha that's good but if you had to invite a J boat class surely the J80 would have been a better fit?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on December 06, 2009, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: soley on December 05, 2009, 10:36:00 PM
A few points here;

1. It appears we are racing one day less than the Star but one more than the Melges 20/24 and J24. Racing Wed - Sat practice on Tuesday, correct?

2. Will we have our own start line or will we share with the Melgi and J?

3. Why the hell did they invite the J24??

1. Correct we have 4 days of racing. One less than Stars and one more than the Melges.
2. Melges declined to share a start line with the Viper. (Please no hassling M20 owners about about this. Let's welcome them. This was not their decision. Melges wanted both their classes on one line)
3. Bacardi looked for another class to put on the additional line. The lightenings have their Southern circuit. the Etchells said yes, but then figured that on top of Jaguar it was too much. So the eager J24s got their opening. Hopefuly they all decide to buy Vipers.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on December 07, 2009, 12:00:49 PM
I am a little disappointed that we have to share a line for the NA's. It was so great having the last one as a stand alone regatta. Things like quick restarts really make all the difference.
I assume they will start the J24's ahead of us. I suppose we got a little spoiled by the outstanding quality of the last NA's!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on December 07, 2009, 12:05:10 PM
The 24's will HATE the 20's. Based on the slow turn times at CRW, this will only be compounded by the relative speed difference between the M24 and M20.

Soley, you're right on. It was GREAT having our own line. The J24's will crowd up the lanes, sadly. We need to embrace them all and have them join the Viper ranks. Let's make sure we invite the J24's to all of our events. It would be somewhat unique and would send a strong and clear message....'sell your shitbox'...um, er...I mean, 'come over to the fun fleet.'
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on December 07, 2009, 10:42:18 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a J/24 that can't be fixed with a chainsaw and a dumpster.

Dan
(14? years of J/24 racing!)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on December 08, 2009, 12:05:06 AM
Classy Mr T classy
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on December 08, 2009, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: soley on December 08, 2009, 12:05:06 AM
Classy Mr T classy
Hey, I tried to kill one by sinking it, but it was salvaged.  :-0

Great class in its heyday, but a horrible boat, in so many ways.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on January 08, 2010, 05:37:52 PM
So it looked like my hopes for doing the NA's in Miami were dashed when my boat booked a charter. Today they canceled!! Wohooo!

Need to get my arse in gear and get everything sorted!!

Miami here I come!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on January 12, 2010, 07:27:00 AM
You cant miss this one soley!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Olaf Bleck on January 26, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
Hi all,  I'm relatively new to Vipers but looking to charter one for Miami (or at least crew).  If you know of anything, please let me know.  Thx!

-Olaf (Boston resident, Miami native)
617-513-9841
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Drew Harper on January 27, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: obleck on January 26, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
Hi all,  I'm relatively new to Vipers but looking to charter one for Miami (or at least crew).  If you know of anything, please let me know.  Thx!

-Olaf (Boston resident, Miami native)
617-513-9841

contact Ron and Harv. They own three Vipers and I do believe they still have a boat available for charter. Harvey Barnes <[email protected]>, Ron Schute <[email protected]>,
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Furna on February 01, 2010, 08:54:42 AM
We've got 20 boats listed for Charleston, but only 9 for Miami?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on February 01, 2010, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: White Snake on February 01, 2010, 08:54:42 AM
We've got 20 boats listed for Charleston, but only 9 for Miami?

Miami requires payment at the time of registration, which I assume has people waiting until closer to the deadline. 
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Furna on February 01, 2010, 10:06:46 AM
oh, I got ya. Everyone else saved $50 by entering Charleston by 1-31.

5 more weeks!!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Justin Scott on February 02, 2010, 10:24:01 AM
HERE IS HOW YOU CAN SIGN UP NOW AND PAY LATER.

PLEASE SIGN UP NOW TO AVOID THE LATE FEE AT END OF THIS WEEK.

SEND THIS ATTACHED FORM DIRECT TO BACARDI........YOU AVOID LATE FEE BY SIMPLY REGISTERING. PAY AT YOUR LEISURE.

The website registration provider needs to get paid at time of registration, because it is a paid service!  Locals can register directly. Now the Viper fleet can as well.

Lets get registered. 
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on February 24, 2010, 04:28:23 PM
Whoo HOO!

I just scored 2 superb crew, 1 a 127 lb rock star woman. They're locals, don't need lodging and can probably score me a free place to stay as well.

Suddenly I'm even MORE excited about this regatta. Now I'm thinking about the sailing, rather than the driving!

I'm also inspired to drop some weight. Might even get to the gym. Shocking. Maybe I should just grab a beer and lie down on the couch till that impulse passes...

I love it when stuff comes together like this.  :)
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: David Furna on February 24, 2010, 04:58:01 PM
I thought I had a lonng drive down, leaving from NC........14hrs for me. The drive home will be the tough one after a week of racin and rum drinkin in Miami.

Can't wait. Leaving 1 week from Saturday morning.
Title: queen bedroom available in our vacation rental house for NAs
Post by: Kay VanValkenburgh on March 01, 2010, 10:51:20 PM
Hi all -

We are renting a house within stumbling distance of the YC. One room with a queen bed has just become available - cancellation due to family emergency. The house looks like a nice one (hand picked by Karen, the expert in finding great vacation rentals).

If you're interested, send me a PM. We're splitting the costs and have the place from Saturday to Saturday; the share for each room is $700. If you don't need the room for the first weekend, one person has already offered to pay for Saturday thru Monday. In that case, the cost would be $400 for Tuesday thru Saturday.

Give a shout.

Looking forward to this!
Title: 2010 NA's - some FAQs
Post by: Jonathan Nye on March 02, 2010, 11:17:14 AM
Some questions with answers some of you may be asking yourselves:

Q:  Is the in-the-water time still Tuesday?
A:  No. The NOR has been amended to say boats do not need to be in the water until 1100 on Wednesday.

Q:  Where do I launch my boat?
A:  The event launch location is the Seminole boat ramp, located at Dinner Key Marina, 2710 S. Bayshore Drive Coconut Grove, Miami. If you want to make your own arrangements you can try the US Sailing Center or Shake-a-Leg (contact numbers below) though they may impose a fee. Both of these locations use hoists.

Q:  If I arrive before Tuesday, March 9, where can I leave my boat?
A:  Try Shake-a-Leg (305) 858-5550 or the US Sailing Center (305) 854-0122. Mention that you need transient storage through Tuesday, March 9 and one or the other should be able to help out.

Q:  May I launch from the Seminole ramp if I arrive the weekend of March 6/7?
A:  Am awaiting an answer to this. Better option may be to launch from Shake-a-Leg or the Sailing Center.

Q:  Once the regatta has started, where do I keep my boat?
A:  Boats are to be kept at Biscayne Bay Yacht Club (2540 S. Bayshore Drive, Coconut Grove, Miami, FL) in one of the many slips (but not in the lagoon).

Q:  Will it be obvious how I get to the race course?
A:  Not completely. Outside the channels the bay can be very shallow so stay inside the channel. Once in the bay there's plenty of water. We're the northern-most circle so finding the starting area should not be difficult.

Q:  The SIs identify a number of locations for various things (Coral Reef YC for changes to the SIs, Biscayne Bay YC for signals made ashore and Shake-a-Leg for protest hearings. Are all these places within walking distance?
A:  Yes

Q:  Where is Coral Reef Yacht Club?
A:  2484 S. Bayshore Drive, Coconut Grove, Miami FL.

Q:  How about the US Sailing Center?
A:  2476 S. Bayshore Drive, Coconut Grove, Miami FL.

Q:  And Shake-a-Leg?
A:  2620 S. Bayshore Drive, Coconut Grove, Miami FL.

If there are any other questions, ask. I may not have the answer right away but will help in any way I can.

Things may seem a little discombobulated given all the locations at which stuff is happening but everything is close. And in the end, to sail on Biscayne Bay in March makes the effort definitely worthwhile.

Jonathan
Title: 2010 NA's - more FAQs
Post by: Jonathan Nye on March 02, 2010, 01:27:43 PM
Q: Is there another number for the US Sailing Center?
A:  If the previous number doesn't work for you, try (305) 793-6186 and ask for Pat Downey.

Q: Where do trailers get stored?
A:  The Dinner Key parking lot.

Jonathan
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Albert Heller on March 02, 2010, 03:23:29 PM
Is there a crane available?  Somehow we have to sort out the unpacking of Harvey's two boats on the double trailer.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jonathan Nye on March 02, 2010, 03:29:35 PM
Cranes (I used the term hoists) are available at Shake-a-Leg and the US Sailing Center. Suggest you call them to make arrangements (numbers in the post above). They should both be tall enough.
Jonathan
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jonathan Nye on March 04, 2010, 04:21:37 PM
The question about insurance on the General Discsussion board made me realize it would be worthwhile to remind everyone competing in the NAs that the NOR requires people to have proof of insurance when they register. So bring a copy of your policy.
Jonathan
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tac Boston on March 10, 2010, 03:38:48 PM
With all the money and technology down there in Miami you would think that results could be posted kind of live wire no?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Fletcher on March 10, 2010, 05:12:03 PM
no kiddin
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Mark Cribbs on March 10, 2010, 05:40:40 PM
Or at least when the racing was over.  The Star results are posted, where are the Viper results?
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Fletcher on March 10, 2010, 06:06:03 PM
http://www.miamisailingweek.com/viper%20results.html
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on March 10, 2010, 06:19:25 PM
Who won the drinking competion last night...

I compete in the senior Cat 3 class.....
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on March 11, 2010, 05:05:32 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotairsj/

photo's from the comedy boat

if anyone want's a large verison of one of these' PM me
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Bill Weinhold on March 11, 2010, 08:40:36 PM
Thanks for posting the pics. not a lot of info coming out of Miami, wishin I was there!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on March 12, 2010, 11:03:05 AM
Friday morning, under postponement pending incoming weather system.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jay Harrell on March 12, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
The weather finally won, no viper racing today.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Bill Weinhold on March 12, 2010, 08:20:24 PM
hiss...you boys run 6 tomorrow!  All day to sock it to the sponsor, gonna be a long day tomorrow!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on March 13, 2010, 07:40:43 PM
Awesome regatta. If you missed this one don't miss charleston race week. If anyone is looking for photos try imagesbymarco.com. He a buddy of ours from Miami and he took thousands of shots of the viper class. There are a lot of entertaining shots especially of saturday.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on March 15, 2010, 10:23:41 AM
Congrats to team Shuck - great regatta!   Man, great event..  i hope everyone has plans for CRW - 21 boats on the line in Miami was great sailing!

Thanks for the photo link!
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Olaf Bleck on March 15, 2010, 08:33:14 PM

Hi all!  Had a great time in Miami breathing life back into #56 as a racing yacht!  I bought her on Sat., mod'd the keel by Monday PM, drove a Viper for the first time ever at sunset, made the last practice race Tue., fixed stuff that broke continuously all week, spent lots of money, learned about broaching, and even managed to own the committee boat for one race by the next Sat!

Of course next time I go out in 20+knots, I'd like to have a carbon stick.  Sponsors?!

Roll Credits....

Thanks tons to everyone that helped us out and encouraged us on!  It would have been a disaster without.  A few notable mentions, Kay, who's responsible for all this at the heart of it, Justin, Paul Z, Dan for sails, Charlie for the spare spin halyard, Oren "the man" who is a boat repair god, John and all the folks at Shake-a-Leg for their unending generosity, Judy and the RC for running a great, pro regatta, and the many others who lent a hand, a tool, some space, or some advice.

And lastly, my undying and faithful walk-on crew, Lisa and Scott.  You guys rock.

See you all in Charleston!
-Olaf
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on March 16, 2010, 11:31:57 AM
Another great Viper regatta is in the books. Congratulations to Shuck, Brad and Eric, 2X Viper NA's champs. Maybe you'll actually get to see your trophy soon!

+ the dockbox bar and boozin' in the hanger, these guys also take a serious run at winning the parties...

Major props and welcome to Olaf, for pulling it all together with a new-to-him boat and hosting an awesome steak dinner for 5 Viper crews. Thanks also to Ben P for making me wait to leave Miami until 11:00 AM on Sunday, so we could score some of the Cory Silken banners that were hanging in the Bacardi tent. The 6 x 10 banner with the photo of Endeavor looks terrific on my office wall  :)

I have to skip Charleston this year for work & too much travel (the boat will be there though, with better sailors than I!) but will absolutely be back for Miami Sailing Week in 2011! With my crew from this regatta giving me so much shit, I may be getting ready to start taking the actual racing a bit more seriously soon.



Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on March 17, 2010, 01:49:44 AM
What was the final count on rigs lost??
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Paul Zimmerman on March 17, 2010, 08:39:07 AM
ZERO.

To date in three years there have only been 6 rigs lost.  Not really a problem considering most if not all were do to user error.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Jeff Jones on March 17, 2010, 09:54:04 AM
And it was nuking on Saturday.   I spent a lot of time looking around (between races) and it appeared proper pre-bend was had by all.   

I wonder what the highest wind reading was during the afternoon.

Melges 20's went in and i think i read that there was a bit of gear failure.  Stars' also took to the dock.   
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Dan Tucker on March 17, 2010, 10:11:08 AM
A J/24 broke a rudder on our circle on Saturday.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on March 17, 2010, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: viper55 on March 17, 2010, 08:39:07 AM
ZERO.

To date in three years there have only been 6 rigs lost.  Not really a problem considering most if not all were do to user error.

Thanks 55, I was talking to R. Peters last night on his way back, he was on a Star, he implied to me that he saw rigs come down and a lot of broaching in the breeze...  :)

After the rigs that came down last year, I was under the impression that there were some mods to the rig specs by the builder, if rigs came down, I was hoping they were not the "New, Improved" version...

I hope lots of friends make it out for LBRW....  Breeze on, no lay days...   ;)

Tim
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on March 19, 2010, 10:08:37 PM
Stars lost 5 or so masts.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Tim Carter on March 20, 2010, 02:48:22 AM
Quote from: Shuck on March 19, 2010, 10:08:37 PM
Stars lost 5 or so masts.
Yea, thats SOP in Stars, didn't want the Vip to get a similar rep....
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Lee Shuckerow on March 24, 2010, 12:24:54 AM
Hey for some good pics of day four, the windiest day that was sailed in the NAs, go to http://www.imagesbymarco.com/p14512274 . There are some good wipeouts and only 300+ photos tomlook through.
Title: Re: 2010 NA's
Post by: Matt Sole on March 25, 2010, 05:37:15 PM
Wow what a set of pictures!
I hope we see some wipe out weather in Charleston. I need more broach recovery practice!