Quick Carbon Mast Question

Jay Harrell · March 08, 2011, 11:23:23 AM

Quote from: Steve Conger on March 08, 2011, 10:55:34 AM
Jay-what kind of paint did you use on the carbon to cover it and what color did you go with?

I have to admit, I don't know specifically what paint. Anything for painting fiberglass should work, because that's really all it is. We went with black at the urging of the painter. My previous mast was painted white, and I really liked that because it didn't get hot to the touch in the summer, but the black doesn't stand out from all the unpainted masts either.

Drew Harper · March 08, 2011, 02:09:53 PM

Awlgrip 'Fleet White' is a good one. They've had it in production for quite awhile should it ever need touch up.

There's an easier 'user applied' paint called Perfection that works will too, though I find it not nearly as effective as Awlgrip.

I hope I'm right on delivery too. SuperSpar keeps overpromising and underdelivering. Claire is just taken to saying 'you're penciled in' as SuperSpar has messed this up repeatedly. Paul Young calls them daily as a little friendly 'reminder' to get stuff delivered to Wiltshire so we can move it along to the USA.

Darren Gilbert · March 08, 2011, 02:55:01 PM

Drew,

Any idea if it would cost any more/less/same to have the rigs shipped directly to North America? For replacements/upgrade rigs, they could be shipped directly to the Rondar reps and then sent out from there.

Thoughts?
Darren

Michael Gravitt · March 08, 2011, 09:00:04 PM

Sorry to turn the original question into something else but I was just told that new boats are taking priority on masts. i paid in full for mine in August. I first was told in the fall, then March, now sometime in April. As long as people are buying boats, we will never get an upgrade mast. I am just about to bag the whole thing. I have installed all hardware, moved the mast step as advised by the rep, and I may never get a mast. The class boasts about helping to develope new boat owners.. I see it is only NEW boat owners.

Matt Sole · March 08, 2011, 09:22:41 PM

Very surprised to hear that Michael. Don't give up, it will be worth it when you get the new rig.
What I don't understand is how Super Spars can not catch up. What the hell! These are pretty simple rigs to build, and they can only make 5 or 6 a month? Something isn't right.

Darren Gilbert · March 08, 2011, 10:02:31 PM

Quote from: Michael Gravitt on March 08, 2011, 09:00:04 PM
Sorry to turn the original question into something else but I was just told that new boats are taking priority on masts. i paid in full for mine in August. I first was told in the fall, then March, now sometime in April. As long as people are buying boats, we will never get an upgrade mast. I am just about to bag the whole thing. I have installed all hardware, moved the mast step as advised by the rep, and I may never get a mast. The class boasts about helping to develope new boat owners.. I see it is only NEW boat owners.

Michael,

Have you received more recent news about your mast? Is it not being shipped with the 'March Container'?

Darren

Drew Harper · March 09, 2011, 10:44:41 AM

I hate sticking my nose into this stuff as Matt always bites it off ;-) ...but what the hell. I'm just going to tell you what I know or am reasonably sure of. There's much conjecture out there about supply chain issues and I hesitate to speculate on those rumors.

SuperSpar buys tubes from Kilwell in NZ. The tube we use is not one in high demand, so they only have one mandrel. Kilwell is in the fishing pole business, primarily. Kilwell just doesn't crank out as many tubes as we need, as fast as we need them, at the price we need them at. They also must build a pile of them to ship them effectively.

There are other manufacturers of carbon tubes...yes. Several issues arise when we look at a different tube supplier.

1. SuperSpar gets a great deal from Kilwell on the tube...hence it's not a very expensive carbon mast.
2. In order to shift tube builders, we need to go through a lengthy test period to ensure we don't change the mast characteristics.
3. All this has to come to a class vote before any change can happen. Being pissed off at Rondar does little good. Mast supply issues have cost Rondar many issues with good customers and many sales of Vipers. Paul is pissed off too. All he can do is; wait for the class to make a decision on the price point of mast spec so another builder can be secured, vote on it and implement. As you see...not so easy. I do know that Paul has paid thousands out of his own pocket to airfreight masts that easily could have been placed in containers because SuperSpar didn't deliver as promised. He calls them virtually every day.
4. This was all so much easier when only 15-20 boats are sold per year. Production is pacing at 4 boats month right now.

Michael, I'm really sorry about your stick not making the March container. I do believe that Paul is trying to force SuperSpar to get supply up to speed by April (late) as I mentioned.

Your class officers are very aware of this and are crafting a letter to SuperSpar as I type this.

Our options, at this moment are limited by:

- Price
- Preexisting design/spec that muct be matched...ie; tested
- Vote
- Implementation

FWIW...I have been waiting for 4 masts to replace ones that were made incorrectly since last August. Mine aren't shipping in my container leaving today...as SuperSpar promised they would be.

It's a tough road Paul walks....piss off the guy with a stick on order or piss off the guy with a new boat on order.

Darren, to answer your question. Kilwell in NZ doesn't make masts...just tubes. They are airfreighted to England then placed in a container back to the US. Airfreighting a mast box from England runs $845 (to SFO). Not many folks want to spend that kind of money and shipping is not the problem. We have a container leaving Rondar roughly every 4 weeks. The problem is getting SuperSpar to actually deliver the masts to Rondar to put in the box.

I hate to see this turn into another Rondar Bashing so perhaps we can focus our frustration at SuperSpar?

http://www.superspars.com/

Moving forward will require a focused effort from the Tech and Exec committees and they are working on this very issue.

For the record I have recently finished up a two year process converting the U20 class to carbon. I contacted every carbon mast builder in the world. The pricing variance was huge for the specs. Kind of amazed me. The big guys, Hall, Southern and Selden were happy to supply, at a much higher price than anyone else. The little guys were either flakes or unreliable. The biggest advantage the big guys offer is they will stock inventory...albeit at significantly greater price. I think the delta was over $1200 oem cost.

End result...I'm damn near ready to start building masts myself. As Matt said, it's really pretty easy. Our stick is not complicated...just 5 tubes and some bits.

Michael Gravitt · March 09, 2011, 06:14:16 PM

Sorry guys... I hate to vent but the issue is I have no mast. I am borrowing the one I have now (aluminum). I vented before and Paul Z talked me off a ledge. I told him that I thought that new boats were getting priority and he assured me that that was not the case. Now all of a sudden it is a case of new boats taking priority. Just give me a straight answer. I paid in full for the mast in August. Green should hold my place in line. Period. I have a new main on the way. I can't use it with my tin rig. That leaves me with a 13 year old main, new jib gnav gear installed, mast step moved. But no mast. If someone would have told me that I would not be able to get a mast for a year I would have waited. I could have ordered a main for the tin rig and made it through. I would have been better off. Now I have a main that I cannot use and really do not know that I will get a mast this Summer. The way it was spelled out to me ... as long as people are buying new boats I will not get a mast. I understand the supply issue. Someone should have told me. I now hear that someone else ordered a mast and waited a year and finally cancelled the order. I cannot do that because I have a new main. I used to work for a sailmaker and knew better than build a sail for a boat with no mast. I want to apoligize to the class about my rants. I am not blaming the class. I had a great time in NY and everyone tried to help. Brian Bennett brought up an issue about there only being one builder. We as a class need to keep RONDAR honest and look at other builders. We are at there mercy. They can do what they want. The class belongs to the people who race. They have no concern on our issues they just want to sell boats. I understand that but we are the class. The older boats are what kept the class going and they need some attention also. keep the older boats up to speed or lose them.

Darren Gilbert · March 09, 2011, 07:26:40 PM

Quote from: Drew Harper on March 09, 2011, 10:44:41 AM
Darren, to answer your question. Kilwell in NZ doesn't make masts...just tubes. They are airfreighted to England then placed in a container back to the US. Airfreighting a mast box from England runs $845 (to SFO). Not many folks want to spend that kind of money and shipping is not the problem. We have a container leaving Rondar roughly every 4 weeks. The problem is getting SuperSpar to actually deliver the masts to Rondar to put in the box.

Drew, thanks for the reply.
If we are paying the air freight from Australia to UK, and then shareing container shipping to the east coast of the US, can't we get Superspar to Air Freight directly to the US a shipment of multiple masts to be distributed to people waiting for them, and to meet up with hulls coming over from Rondar? I would think this should be around the same cost.

Drew Harper · March 09, 2011, 07:41:58 PM

Michael,

I understand your frustration. I really do. Rondar is stuck in the middle of getting a bad rap here. Rondar doesn't build the mast. SuperSpar controls availability. Every builder will need to use the SuperSpar mast until the class votes for another rig supplier. Moving to another builder will only get you mad at that builder when SuperSpar doesn't deliver your mast to them. I can understand being frustrated at Rondar for delaying your boat....but the mast? It's like getting mad at J-boats for delaying your brand new 111 because Hall spars didn't deliver the rig on time. Not J's fault.

I spoke to Paul and he said he already offered to lend you the mast off of #73 until yours is available to ship. Please take him up on that. We will stall selling that boat until you have your mast. It seems to be a good gesture to get through a complicated issue. Please let me know soon if this makes sense as I have a buyer for that boat I need to inform on its availability.

Darren, the cost to ship masts via container is basically free as we have them leaving all the time. Two left this week alone. The issue isn't shipping from England but having them available to ship. The tubes come from New Zealand to England, then need to be made into a mast then shipped. It's only 2 weeks shipping England to the East Coast. We just need SuperSpar to deliver the bloody things to the factory so we can shove them into a box and onto a ship.

I know everyone is frustrated with this. Paul Young is working diligently to resolve this. I might suggest a polite letter to SuperSpar may be appropriate.

Matt Sole · March 09, 2011, 10:09:26 PM

Drew thanks for the final answer on what the hell is going on behind the scenes.
It is the not knowing that pisses people off. If people were told that Super Spars had a tube supply issue, I am sure a lot of heart ache would have been avoided.

So basically the problem lies with the tube supplier Kilwell. Now is there an answer from Kilwell on ramping up tube production? I understand there is only one mandrel but surely it can only take a couple of days to make up one tube. How many masts do we get per tube?

Drew Harper · March 10, 2011, 12:01:29 PM

Hey Matt...just got off the phone with Paul. This will be all sorted by mid/late April. He's given me his word on this and he is a man of his word, as you know.

He's taken some very proactive steps to ramp this up and to eliminate this issue from all our lives. I can't discuss the details but please know it is being sorted.

Key to this process is full awareness that we are selling lots of boats, Europe is coming online and we will need not dozens, but hundreds of masts coming up.

Steve Conger · March 10, 2011, 12:21:13 PM

matt
sorry to hear of your troubles and thanks for sharing your dilemma, because it should help prevent this happening again.

drew- is it just matts problem with the mast solved by late april? or is this for every mast ordered recently? i ordered in early february and was penciled in for may delivery. to the best of your knowledge, with no absolutes or guarantees, will this take care of me also?

Drew Harper · March 10, 2011, 04:26:15 PM

Quote from: Steve Conger on March 10, 2011, 12:21:13 PM
matt
sorry to hear of your troubles and thanks for sharing your dilemma, because it should help prevent this happening again.

drew- is it just matts problem with the mast solved by late april? or is this for every mast ordered recently? i ordered in early february and was penciled in for may delivery. to the best of your knowledge, with no absolutes or guarantees, will this take care of me also?

Had a phone conversation with Paul Young this am. He's made this a full-time job. Resolving the mast problem...this is after his full time job of building boats...LOL.

I do think so Steve. He's pressing hard for resolution as per mid/late April of all the mast availability woes. I feel sorry for the SuperSpar guys. I think he's taken a pound of flesh out of each ass cheek of theirs.... :-D

Michael Gravitt · March 10, 2011, 06:46:56 PM

I appreciate the response I am getting from the class. I believe I will take Paul up on his offer. At least I will be able to set the boat up and use my new main. I hope I didn't come acsoss like I was bashing the association. There just needs to be a standard on when the orders are placed. Mast or boat. In the order they are placed. If the rig comes in like they say in April then it should not hold up the sale of the boat. This will at least get me going.