Gybing

[Scott Ellis]

So as I read this, it it all good stuff and has really helped us in our gybes, but how is everyone attaching the sheet to the clew?  I have a small 10" painter that I spliced into the original spin sheet and have a small ball on the end and use a sort of dinghy hitch to attach, but that damn thing still gets caugh on the forestay when it's light out. 

What's the pro way of attaching this? 

Thanks!

-Scott

[Garrett Johns]

Scott, we had the same set up and the same problem. We ditched the ball and just tie a bowline, sprayed Mclube on  the forestay and clew of chute as well as the painter line and that part of sheets. Seems to help a lot! The helm also needs to turn slow enough to give the trimmer enough time to float the clew in front of the forestay (if there is even enough wind to do it!!). If it doesn't work, the helm then blames the trimmer and the trimmer in turns blames the helm.

Disclaimer: this is NOT even close to pro opinion as requested!!

[Scott Ellis]

Ohh!  Ok, as I shamlessly stole your set up once Austin showed it to me ;)  I'll rock the bowline and see how that goes, seems like less to snag on.  I'll also work on blaming the crew more. 

[Drew Harper]

Class rulz say no tapered spin sheets...grrrrrrrr so we spliced coreless eyes into the end of the sheet and tie a 1/8" spectra pigtail onto those. 

Never really have a hangup but skiff gybes have considerable sail momentum as the clew passes the headstay so that does help.

Late main gybes (light air rollers)  the clew never touches the headstay so there's never an issue.

[Dan Tucker]

So as I read this, it it all good stuff and has really helped us in our gybes, but how is everyone attaching the sheet to the clew?  I have a small 10" painter that I spliced into the original spin sheet and have a small ball on the end and use a sort of dinghy hitch to attach, but that damn thing still gets caugh on the forestay when it's light out. 

What's the pro way of attaching this? 

Thanks!

-Scott

Check this thread for how I do it: http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=272.0 Short pigtail bowline's to the clew.

Justin and I sailed my boat together in Marblehead on Saturday, shifty and gusting anywhere between 12-20. While he steered the 2nd race, I trimmed and schooled him on what a proper skiffy gybe looks like. It was fun, I've only ever helmed for it. Nailed it more than I missed it. Keys are getting all the slack out of the new sheet before gybing, and trimming the old sheet a couple of feet as you roll into the gybe. Once the kite blows through it's only 2 good pulls to trimming and planing. MUCH less work than floating the clew around.

I blame the 3rd race downwind broach on him botching one of his trimming attempts! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  ;)

The 3rd race upwind crash, yeah, that was me falling down in the back of the bus! Thanks for swimming Justin  :-P

[Drew Harper]

So as I read this, it it all good stuff and has really helped us in our gybes, but how is everyone attaching the sheet to the clew?  I have a small 10" painter that I spliced into the original spin sheet and have a small ball on the end and use a sort of dinghy hitch to attach, but that damn thing still gets caugh on the forestay when it's light out. 

What's the pro way of attaching this? 

Thanks!

-Scott

Check this thread for how I do it: http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=272.0 Short pigtail bowline's to the clew.

Justin and I sailed my boat together in Marblehead on Saturday, shifty and gusting anywhere between 12-20. While he steered the 2nd race, I trimmed and schooled him on what a proper skiffy gybe looks like. It was fun, I've only ever helmed for it. Nailed it more than I missed it. Keys are getting all the slack out of the new sheet before gybing, and trimming the old sheet a couple of feet as you roll into the gybe. Once the kite blows through it's only 2 good pulls to trimming and planing. MUCH less work than floating the clew around.

I blame the 3rd race downwind broach on him botching one of his trimming attempts! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  ;)

The 3rd race upwind crash, yeah, that was me falling down in the back of the bus! Thanks for swimming Justin  :-P

Pics or it didn't happen... :-D

[Matt Sole]

Dan and Justin on the same boat, where the hell is the GoPro camera for that one??????

[Peter Beardsley]

Late main gybes (light air rollers)  the clew never touches the headstay so there's never an issue.

What's a "late main gybe"? 

[Drew Harper]

floater gybe.... slow roll downwind as you ease the clew to just forward of the headstay rolling the headstay past the clew and allowing the sail to fill on the new side before you gybe the main.

[Justin Scott]

Also known as the wing and wing gybe, gybe chute first then main. Its gone out of fashion as the blo' thru' gybe has proven better in all but the lightest conditions.

[Drew Harper]

Lmao....Brad taught me that gybe back in th U20 days. He'd come into the mark on port tack, sail deep, flop over the main onto starboard outside the circle and suddenly have rights. I've used that one many-a-time since then. Thanks Brad.

Floaters work well in anything up to 8, past that skiff gybes are good up to about 28 TWS then the Viper gets a bit funky and needs more of a flick on the gybe, especially in 4' chop. The kite can't blow through the headstay fast enough so the backwinding crashes the boat. We tend to resort back to floaters then as the main will keep the boat fully planing.  Vipers get a bit 'squishy' on the helm going DDW in that breeze so we sail with metric shiploads of rake in those conditions and the rig is REALLY wound on. 12+ turns above base.

Also known as the wing and wing gybe, gybe chute first then main. Its gone out of fashion as the blo' thru' gybe has proven better in all but the lightest conditions.

[Luke Porter]

Floaters work well in anything up to 8, past that skiff gybes are good up to about 28 TWS then the Viper gets a bit funky and needs more of a flick on the gybe, especially in 4' chop. The kite can't blow through the headstay fast enough so the backwinding crashes the boat. We tend to resort back to floaters then as the main will keep the boat fully planing.  Vipers get a bit 'squishy' on the helm going DDW in that breeze so we sail with metric shiploads of rake in those conditions and the rig is REALLY wound on. 12+ turns above base.

I just had a frustrating weekend of howling gales (in which we didn't even try to race). It quickly became apparent that as the wind builds the regular tuning guide from this site (and that comes with the owners manual) just doesn't work. 12+ turns seems closer to the mark given what we were seeing while trying to beat home in 20-25 and a short 4' chop. Does anyone have another tuning guide for the carbon rig? Or maybe just some experience-based info that has worked in the past? We can set up for the lighter stuff just fine but we've had precious little of that this year and it's starting to get irritating. Thanks.

Luke.

[Drew Harper]

What sails are you using Luke? It's wildly dependent on the sail set.

A couple of general points.  We sail with a much longer headstay length to add rake to the rig in big air. This helps considerably..

It opens the slot between the main and jib....it presents a different profile of the main chord and camber to the wind, effectively producing more skyward lift and a more draft forward look, moves ce aft and helps counter the effects of the apparent wind change over the bumps....it allows the rig to depower via tipoff more effectively...

Cap shroud tension is key but you want to avoid inverting the main as this puts draft way back. It's important to get a strong handle on vang sheeting and putting a brut on jib trim. You have to ease the jib in the puffs and ease the main only in the big puffs. If you are only easing the main, you are effectively powering up the jib. Easing the jib in the puffs is a constant....even in lighter air as is allows the boat to squirt forward with each increase in apparent wind and the shift aft isn apparent wind direction.

This is my take and I'm hoping Brad will jump in and give us his considerable sails makers insight on this important tuning issue.

I have asked both Brad/Tac Boston (Doyle Boston) along with Chris Winnard (Ullman) to hello rewrite the tuning guide.  I'm working on a bunch various issues right now that takes precedence over this but hopefully we can get to work on it soon.

In a perfect world, I'd love to do a DVD tuning guide complete with pics of desired sail shapes and rig tune for various wind strength/sea conditions for the great visual aid it can be. This would be part two of the Viper DVD kit...the first part would be the owners manual, assembly guide....<sigh> if I just had a lot more time.

[Robert Bernard]

Luke, make sure you are starting at the right base value with the loos gauge called out. I had the type A gauge instead of the PT-1 and I was always under tuning my rig. Mother nature helped me ditch the gauge overboard and that's when I realized my mistake. 32 on a PT-1 is not the same as on a type A etc.

[Luke Porter]

Luke, make sure you are starting at the right base value with the loos gauge called out. I had the type A gauge instead of the PT-1 and I was always under tuning my rig. Mother nature helped me ditch the gauge overboard and that's when I realized my mistake. 32 on a PT-1 is not the same as on a type A etc.

This might be the base of the problem. I've got a type A gauge. Does anyone have a PT-1 to type A translation?

Drew: We have the stock Hyde sails, if that helps any. The forestay is set to the recommended length from the tuning guide and I'm not sure how much more we can lengthen it, there's a lot of thread showing. We haven't been burping the jib in the puffs, we'll try that on Wednesday and see what happens.

Once I get the base setting right, roughly how many turns are folks adding for various wind speeds?

Luke.