Gybing

Started by Matt Rowlinson, May 02, 2011, 06:36:17 PM

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Matt Rowlinson

"The way we gybe chutes (early rotation) now came directly from crewing on Melges 24s. "

From Justin on SA.  Can someone explain?  Is this related to Shuckerow's "chicken gybe" discussed on another thread?

My gybing technique has only got as far as yelling at the crew not to stand on the sheet.  Any tips on new methods gratefully received.

Matt CAN 70

Justin Scott

Rotate early. Helm follows the spin trimmer rather than vice versa.

Trimmer eases chute and helm comes down, sorta simultaneous.
Then as soon as chute starts to break, trimmer lets go on massive ease so clew floats forward of headstay. Then hauls in on new sheet. But helm stays on same gybe and mainsail isnt gybed.

As clews crosses headstay helm goes ddw and starts gybe, but main is still in place. As spin starts to trim in new side, heave main across,gybe and hike. (and maybe a little countersteer to make sure u dont round up)

Hopefully spin is already across and fills immediately. Rattler is pinned beneath you and jest roll 'em.
Viper - Mambo Kings
Right Coast Refreshments Committee

Olaf Bleck

#2
Quote from: Justin Scott on May 21, 2011, 12:39:14 PM
Rotate early. Helm follows the spin trimmer rather than vice versa.

Trimmer eases chute and helm comes down, sorta simultaneous.
Then as soon as chute starts to break, trimmer lets go on massive ease so clew floats forward of headstay. Then hauls in on new sheet. But helm stays on same gybe and mainsail isnt gybed.

As clews crosses headstay helm goes ddw and starts gybe, but main is still in place. As spin starts to trim in new side, heave main across,gybe and hike. (and maybe a little countersteer to make sure u dont round up)

Hopefully spin is already across and fills immediately. Rattler is pinned beneath you and jest roll 'em.

That's pretty much how I would describe it too as a relative rookie.  They KEY concept is to let the kite's clew float forward of the headstay.  This is done by blowing the kite BEFORE gybing.  Otherwise the kite gets blown into the rig and you have to drag the kite around the forestay, usually with the spin sheet knots getting caught on top of that.  I've been calling it: "ready to gybe, blow it, gybing", and I watch to make sure the clew is clear before altering course beyond dead down.

Also, as soon as the clew floats in front of the forestay and the gybe turn starts, the trimmer needs to HAUL the kite in with the new sheet as fast as possible, again to keep the wind from blowing the kite into itself (which can result in an hourglass and the very least lots of friction and a slow re-inflation).  However, as soon as the kite is fully free on the new gybe and starts to inflate, blow it again because it's going to be overtrimmed (i.e control it).  Otherwise it will heel the boat over to leeward and you round up.  The third man and skipper should be ready to LEAP on the gunwale as soon as you have more than a few degrees of leeward heel on the new gybe, especially in heavy air.

Finally, it takes a fine touch on the helm to get all this initiated and complete.  Too much and you immediately cause problems for the crew and likely will broach, and also you can throw the crew around pretty good the cockpit.  Keep in mind that as the wind and boat speed picks up, your gybe angle decreases. So in 18+knots, you probably don't need to turn more than 10-20 degrees to complete the gybe. Then when it's complete, dial back in.  Better safe than sorry and you won't have slowed down much anyway.

In light air it's a little different.  You still want to float it around in much the same manner, but after it's around you want keep some leeward heel to let gravity help fill the kite.  Maybe even heat it up a little anyway to compensate for the speed lost in the gybe itself. Much of your apparent can be from boat speed, so if you lose the speed by collapsing the kite entirely then you might not even be able to re-inflate it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...  :-)
East Coast: Viper #56;  West Coast: Viper #24 (available for charter)

Justin Scott

"Re-inflation"? Has Olaf introduced a new word to the viper vocabular? 
Viper - Mambo Kings
Right Coast Refreshments Committee

Dan Tucker

Quote from: Justin Scott on May 22, 2011, 06:52:07 AM
"Re-inflation"? Has Olaf introduced a new word to the viper vocabular? 
I think JJ and his inflatable crew made that introduction in AZ this year....


What's been described above is good light-medium breeze technique. I had a kid sailing with me in Miami this year who was phenomenal trimming in the heavy air. He was trimming a M32 the week prior, taught me skiff-style "blow through" technique for big breeze, which is pretty much the opposite of above. Rotate the boat onto the new heading, DON"T ease the old sheet and rotate the kite until on new heading. Essentially like a Mexican douse. Devastatingly quick and controlled, no need to overtrim to "re-inflate", no danger of round-ups. I was truly astounded at how quick and comfortable it was.
Race it like you stole it.

Olaf Bleck

Quote from: Dan Tucker on May 23, 2011, 10:10:35 AM

What's been described above is good light-medium breeze technique. I had a kid sailing with me in Miami this year who was phenomenal trimming in the heavy air. He was trimming a M32 the week prior, taught me skiff-style "blow through" technique for big breeze, which is pretty much the opposite of above. Rotate the boat onto the new heading, DON"T ease the old sheet and rotate the kite until on new heading. Essentially like a Mexican douse. Devastatingly quick and controlled, no need to overtrim to "re-inflate", no danger of round-ups. I was truly astounded at how quick and comfortable it was.


How's that work?  Seems like it would be hell on the sail, no?

Bust Out Another Thousand.

What we need here is some videos...
East Coast: Viper #56;  West Coast: Viper #24 (available for charter)

Drew Harper

Blow through is pretty typical here. Not really much wear on the kite. We keep ours heavily sedated with holmenkol though. Early main (what we can them...blow thru has a different meaning in SF :-) gybes allow the boat to get through the gybe quickly but gets pretty wild in breeze much above 27 TWS and is dicey in huge chop. The boat can Mexican crash with the kite on the wrong side and it gets sketchy quickly when that happens. In that breeze we just plane down on a puff, flip the main and kite at the same time with a short turn to weather for fill and a coordinated hike on the rail to roll her downwind and flatten the boat to pop back onto a ballistic plane.

#189 UK Built Mark IV Viper "DILLIGAF"

Dan Tucker

Race it like you stole it.

Matt Sole

I actually think the skiff style gybe is less hurt on the sail than dragging the clew around the forestay.
It sort of pops through and fills at the same time. Wicked fast and no flogging the spin.

Booze it or lose it

Hijack GBR 78

Brad Boston

Dan is correct on how you should jibe a viper 90% of the time. We have done this for the past year and can't believe how well it works.in breeze you never come off a plane...

Matt Rowlinson

Quote from: Brad Boston on May 23, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
Dan is correct on how you should jibe a viper 90% of the time. We have done this for the past year and can't believe how well it works.in breeze you never come off a plane...


Thanks for the responses--lots here to try out.  Brad, what's  the 10% exception?  very light?  very breezy?  both?

Brad Boston


Jay Harrell

Quote from: Brad Boston on May 23, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
Dan is correct on how you should jibe a viper 90% of the time. We have done this for the past year and can't believe how well it works.in breeze you never come off a plane...


Am I understanding this correctly:

Step 1, turn and gybe the main (and jib?), don't ease the chute
Step 2, gybe the chute

Olaf Bleck

Quote from: Jay Harrell on May 24, 2011, 10:43:33 AM
Quote from: Brad Boston on May 23, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
Dan is correct on how you should jibe a viper 90% of the time. We have done this for the past year and can't believe how well it works.in breeze you never come off a plane...


Am I understanding this correctly:

Step 1, turn and gybe the main (and jib?), don't ease the chute
Step 2, gybe the chute

We need a video...
East Coast: Viper #56;  West Coast: Viper #24 (available for charter)

Brad Boston

I have one but I need to find it. Last fall we shot a bunch on and off the boat.