Which compass?

[Luke Porter]

Hey folks. New Viper owner here, the boat is due to arrive in May.

Which bit(s) of electronics do folks use? I need to chose something to show me direction and anything else that might help so I thought I'd ask those that knew what's the best one to go for? Tacktick? Velocitek? Something else?

Thanks.

Luke (no hull number as yet).

[Craig Wilusz]

We use a micro-tactic and a speed -puck

[Ben Steinberg]

currently only the tacktick micro, velociteck sc1 and velociteck speedpuck are allowed by the class rules as well as good old fashioned bubble compasses.  

[Olaf Bleck]

currently only the tacktick micro, velociteck sc1 and velociteck speedpuck are allowed by the class rules as well as good old fashioned bubble compasses.
 

To add to that, the VMG, distance to line, lift/header, etc. functions are supposed to be disabled.  In other words, only boat speed and heading are allowed to be used.

I imagine if you show up with the new Velocitek product (name escapes me), nobody will protest you either.

[Matt Sole]

No functions on any approved navigation device have to be disabled. Part of the reason for limiting devices allowed.

[Olaf Bleck]

No functions on any approved navigation device have to be disabled. Part of the reason for limiting devices allowed.

Hmm... interesting.  Looking up the rules, it is indeed a little nebulous:

9  Safety Equipment

9.1  The following equipment shall be carried on board when racing: (a) One life jacket or buoyancy vest (of pattern approved by the National Authority if required) for each member of the crew.(b) One paddle(c)  A compass, which may be conventional or electronic but which may not store headings, unless such compass is specifically allowed in these rules. (d) 20 meters of 6mm diameter or larger towing line (c) Additional safety equipment required by local or national laws shall be carried

10  Prohibitions, Restrictions and Exemptions

10.2.1  Electronic devices which measure or calculate, water depth, current speed or direction, wind direction or wind speed are prohibited.

10.2.2 If an electronic device has not been specifically approved by the Viper 640 Class Association Technical Committee, it shall be assumed to be prohibited.

10.2.3 (i) The Tacktick micro compass is approved . (ii) The Velocitek SC 1 and the SpeedPuck are approved

10.2.4  Electronic watches and timers are approved.

My reading of this, and hence likely why I heard it this way, is that 10.2.1 prohibits use of those aforementioned functions.  10.2.3 specifies which devices are allowed on board, but they still need to meet 10.2.1, which would be the case if you disable those functions in software (which can be done).

The VMG function for example, _does_ calculate wind direction in some capacity, as it is very much a function of wind shifts (but other things as well).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jay Harrell]

I'm not an official rule interpreter, but Matt's understanding is correct as far as I know.  It's the way the rule was intended back when it was passed, and the way it has been discussed and enforced ever since the Velocitiek was approved.

Also, I don't see how a Velocitek would violate 10.2.1 anyway, as it has no depth or wind instrumentation.   Just because a compass or GPS can tell you that your course has changed (and calls that function lift/header), doesn't mean it knows squat about the wind itself.  It's certainly not measuring the wind directly, and I would argue it's not calculating it either, but merely inferring something about your situation based on a correlation that only holds in a few limited situations.

[Matt Sole]

Niether the Tactic or the Velocitek, use or calculate anything described in rule 10.2.1. no matter whether full or partial functions are used.

They do both however log heading which would break the first part of 9.1 c. But for fill the second part of 9.1 c. as they are approved devices.

One of the advantages of having both the tactic and Velocitek is that you can have Heading displayed on the tactic and course over ground on the Velocitek from which you your self in the grey matter can deduce current direction if you feel. This however is just fine in the rules.
One of the reason for not alllowing some other of the gps boxes is that they have a flux gate compass that can read heading which would mean that it can give you current direction on the box. This is not allowed.

The reason for not allowing other devices, is that there are no real mechanisms at a regatta to see has what functions disallowed. This is simplified by allowing all functions to be used on approved devices only.

[Luke Porter]

One of the advantages of having both the tactic and Velocitek is that you can have Heading displayed on the tactic and course over ground on the Velocitek from which you your self in the grey matter can deduce current direction if you feel. This however is just fine in the rules.

That's one of the reasons I asked in the first place. The velocitek would seem to be the better of the two devices since it gives speed etc., however it does not give pure heading. I don't think I want to get two boxes just yet but I would like to have heading and speed ....

What's the status on handheld/wrist mounted GPS? That would give me enough speed to work with and is much cheaper than a velocitek.

Luke.

[Terry Phillips]

So a good staring point would be a Speed Puck? (heading, speed, lift/knock)
-
Do you need anything else?

[Olaf Bleck]

Well, cool, sounds like I ought to learn to use my SC1's other functions a little more...!

Of course, there is an adage which says, "Dude, if you need that, you have other problems."


I think wrist GPS watches are disallowed by 10.2.2, unless you take a broad interpretation of what an "electronic watch" is.  Cell phone GPS/aps similarly would be disallowed.

[Dave Nickerson]

Folks ? here?s a preview of what?s coming from the new tech committee on electronics for a class member vote. 

We have a rule that is currently tied to specific models of boxes.  As we have seen with the Velocitek SC-1, these boxes come and go.  We have two proposals from late last year requesting approval of the Velocitek ProStart and the NovaSail 300 and 600 series ? these came in too late to be voted in the last set of rule changes.  In other forum discussions there has been a lot of talk about moving to functionality instead of specific equipment so we don?t have to keep revisiting this. 

Our plan is request an Exec Committee OK to conduct a ?special electronic vote? later this spring, which is now allowed by the recent changes to the class constitution.  Otherwise, we would need to wait until the AGM at Sarnia.  A key issue in this vote will be electronics and the schedule for a vote with required notice and voting periods is around late-May.  So, a clear class decision in time for most summer sailing.

Ben Steinberg (member of the new tech committee) is working on the specifics of the proposal to be voted on.  After he gets tech committee buy-in (very quick) he?ll be posting the draft proposal for feedback in the member section of the forums.  Then the tech committee will finalize it for a vote.

Ben has some work to do, but I expect that you will see something like a choice of:
A) any function that comes out of a magnetic or flux gate compass and GPS box or
B) a back to basics less expensive, set of limited functions like magnetic or flux gate heading, GPS-based speed over ground and a count-down timer.

You?d be surprised at the number of less-vocal folks who seem to favor B.  The only way this can be reasonably decided is a class vote.  Please let Ben finish what he's working before getting into the mertits.  And we'll move the discussion to the member section

The tech committee last week decided not issue a rule Interpretation to allow the use now of the Velocitek ProStart.  Although it has similar (and even fewer) functions than the SC-1 (the argument for an OK now), there are couple functions (GPS based course over ground and the windshift indicator) that cannot be turned off on this box.  That could leave someone with a box they can?t use if B above survived vetting and was approved by the class.  These functions can be turned off on the Speedpuck which is currently approved.

Sorry for the long explanation, but this is an important issue and hopefully we can find a solution that is more robust than what we have now.  It?s a class decision.

[Drew Harper]

So my satcom based ECDIS nav system is definitely out? ;-)

The TC has its hands full as I hear there's some specific boxes coming out this year that will be pretty cool. New GPS chipset is in beta and will release Q2....Loads-o-functions.

I personally like the Nova360 but it's out of stock all the time, so pretty much a moot point.

Anyone try a RockBox? Any Good?

Most importantly, how do we get Jeff Jones to make a ton of multi-mount mast brackets for the class :-))

[Olaf Bleck]

Dave,

Is there some interpretation floating around that dictates what needs to be turned off in the SC1/etc?  I'm hearing here that nothing does.  True?

[Jeff Jones]

Anyone who can run over to Justin's house.. pick up my 5 EFG shirts from October and UPS them to me (using my acct number) get's one - next day. 

;-)

So my satcom based ECDIS nav system is definitely out? ;-)

The TC has its hands full as I hear there's some specific boxes coming out this year that will be pretty cool. New GPS chipset is in beta and will release Q2....Loads-o-functions.

I personally like the Nova360 but it's out of stock all the time, so pretty much a moot point.

Anyone try a RockBox? Any Good?

Most importantly, how do we get Jeff Jones to make a ton of multi-mount mast brackets for the class :-))