Older Boat Refit Checklist

[Creigh Rahenkamp]

I've been looking at the used boat section of the site and have my eye on one.  I've also read a few articles/posts on things that have to be done to the older boats -- new keel, carbon mast eventually, rudder mount issues, installing split main sheet, something about the way the spin launches from the older boats needs some tweak to the bow, etc.  Is there or does anyone have a comprehensive list of these things and a general/typical cost?  Am I another $10k from buying an older boat to being able to use it?

Also, I'll be based out of St. Michaels, MD if I take the plunge (racing PHRF mostly).  Anyone know if there is a boat outfitter/repair shop that knows the Viper in that area (including Easton/Cambridge/Annapolis in the definition of area)?

Thanks.

[Dave Nickerson]

Depends what you want to do.  To sail PHRF, I think any of the boats currently for sail are ready to sail as is with $0 upgrades.  To sail one-design you would need to do the keel bulb upgrade.  To be fully competitive, a carbon mast and decent sails a are next step.  The other upgrades are a function of the condition of what you buy and your objectives.  Don't know of any shops in your area who know Vipers (there may be one).  There is a guy in Marblehead and one out on the Cape who know the boats and do very good work.  Good luck.

[Olaf Bleck]

Being in the midst of upgrading my Bennett boat:

For PHRF, nothing needed, aside from carrying the equipment required by your PHRF outfit.  That could include a motor, but not stantioned lifelines or a head.  Generally, you need a bilge pump on board, compass, throwout line, and the likes.  The old boats at least do have mounting bolts for a motor mount, which you could easily weld up or maybe there's some out there.

For one design:

Mandatory:

- Keel Bulb
- Life lines underneath gunwale

Optional:
- Carbon Rig ($4500)
- New sails ($2-4k)
- Mast blocks and a line/cleat that holds the mast forward in the partners
- Continuous spin halyard
- Replace spin-chute roller with bent stainless bar.  Makes chute opening larger and retrieval easier
- Split tail main sheet ($150)
- redo main halyard cleats on mast.  Not sure what rules are
- add a 4th set of hiking straps forward of the existing three
- add some hiking strap "holder-uppers", of various varieties people have invented
- add an additional forward footrest in conjunction with the hiking strap upgrade
- upgrade to latest greatest rope [sic] for everything else
- nonskid material glued to deck

Also worth doing to the trailer I imagine:

- someone's made up a mold for a keel storage tray for the old trailers
- upgrade trailer bunks to spread load out on the hull (my boat has bunk dents).  These are out there too
- seen a trailer with a dock box mounted on it, seems like a great addition

And...

- make a spare set of keel positioning blocks.  The old ones seem to be aged about long enough that they need replacing
- keep up with gelcoat de-lamination (learn how to repair, it's easy)


The upside is, the old boats _arguably_ are built of better materials and will outlast the new ones.  My understanding is old boats are S-glass with epoxy resin, whereas the new boats are E-glass with vinylester resin.  The former will last much longer, won't soften much over time, and is easier to repair. 

I'm pretty confident that a fully upgraded old boat in good shape with good sails will maintain a ~$20k value.  So when you consider your investment, keep that in mind.  In fact, who knows, maybe they'll go up in value.

[Drew Harper]

New Mast is $3500. Add the Wire kit and the shroud mods for another $390 and $140 and you're there.

Biggest difference between the epoxy boat and the new Mark III is the ring frame located at the shrouds. The Epoxy boats relied on the transverse bulkhead to distribute the shroud load. With the shrouds laying further aft, I believe the epoxy boats twist more...at least in big breeze. It's really no issue though.

Keep the boat dry and don't let water sit in it. This can cause gelcoat delam off the epoxy.

The Bulb mod is pretty easy to do if you are quite handy. I'd suggest weighing the existing keel and the materials used in the mod to make sure you end up right at 275 lbs. Otherwise boat yard can do this in roughly 14 hours.

I'm pretty sure we'll have the mid-winter Hyde Sail program running again this year. Probably $3500 for a full suit....hopefully. Hyde has just taken a hard look at the current version of sails on the new Rondar Works boat located in England. There will be some minor mods coming down the pipe.

I'd suggest buying a set of the Rondar bunks. They are huge, articulated and fit the hullform perfectly. $600 mounted on galvy frames...plus shipping.

[Jeff Jones]

My last price quote on Hydes was 3,200.  Is that no longer good? 

[Drew Harper]

My last price quote on Hydes was 3,200.  Is that no longer good? 

I'm guessing prices will go up...but it's just a guess. $3200 is current but I know there's been some cost escalation on sail cloth. Will know more after 'Dago regatta.

[Jeff Jones]

Shouldn't specials go in the other direction?   Current price 3200 but if you wait, you can pay an extra 300 bucks during our winter special!  ;-)

Just giving you a hard time.

[Drew Harper]

Shouldn't specials go in the other direction?   Current price 3200 but if you wait, you can pay an extra 300 bucks during our winter special!  ;-)

Just giving you a hard time.

Yeah, thanks for that. I need more crap from people doing a job I don't get paid for.

[Creigh Rahenkamp]

Just wanted to take the opportunity to thank everyone for the responses.  I'm loving the energy of the class and will try to catch some of the 2011 East Coast events as crew, but I'm going to hold off getting a boat this year.  The used route looks like a path for someone with more hands-on talents than I have and a new one has to wait for my youngest to finish college.

The moderators should look at making some of this thread a sticky -- the information here is exactly what new folks trolling the used section need to know.

[Craig Wilusz]

We just bought a used boat (#100) Sunday.  The class is somethnig else.  We were consdiereing a Melges 20, but the calss itself swayed our final decsion.  Bought the boat sight unseen via internet without a test sail.  Deborah's (wife) first sail on one was last night. She is happy. 

If interested down the road I can mail you our project lists notes as an idea what to do.

Craig

[Dave Nickerson]

Congrats. Where are you sailing out of?
Boat #100 shouldn't need much...

[Justin Scott]

We just bought a used boat (#100) Sunday.  The class is somethnig else.  We were consdiereing a Melges 20, but the calss itself swayed our final decsion.  Bought the boat sight unseen via internet without a test sail.  Deborah's (wife) first sail on one was last night. She is happy. 

If interested down the road I can mail you our project lists notes as an idea what to do.

Craig

A colleague from work borrowed my boat for the Viper NAs and just came back from sailing a Melges loaner boat at the M20 NAs. He said   "The Melges 20 is a nice boat. My grandparents would enjoy it"  . He owns a Melges 24.........we'll see him own a Viper before too long.