Author Topic: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes  (Read 339 times)

Dave Nickerson

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2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« on: January 10, 2018, 02:51:56 PM »
Posted in the Class Members Discussions section of the forums for review and debate.  Couple of interesting ones...
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Brad Boston

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 04:12:48 PM »
I think the tapered spin would be great! You tube videos show how to do it so I can even splice..
Most of the time we replace the sheets now because the cover fails. This would not be a problem if tapering was allowed.
I vote YES!
Brad

Nick Ward

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 06:28:51 PM »
I agree with Brad, it is any easy skill set to learn on line, plus Thomas Hardware does it for almost nothing with a line order..
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Darren Gilbert

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 07:07:14 PM »
100% agree Brad and Nick.
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Peter Beardsley

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 07:40:47 PM »
I am anti tapered sheets and halyards.  I don't think it adds much performance benefit but it does add some time and cost for sure.  We run 7mm Excel Fusion jib sheets and those run as fast as any tapered jib sheets could possibly run, and are way more durable -- they are ok on our hands as long as we are wearing gloves, and they whip through the blocks even in light air.  We use similar stuff on our spin sheets and again, no issue whatsoever.  If your leeward spin sheet is hanging in the water going downwind, and you're using class minimum diameter sheets, it's a sign that you either need to heat it up, or that no one should be racing.  I've been involved in a few light air drifter downwind finishes in the past 12 months in Vipers, coming out on the right side of all of them I think in conditions where some boats were TLEd, and our sheets STILL never dragged in the water since you have to sail hot enough in those conditions to keep moving forward. 

Anyhow, this is a solution in search of a problem.  If the rule passes, I will feel the need to get tapered sheets and halyards to make sure that we have the best stuff, but I'll feel stupid about doing so because we didn't need them.  And we all know plenty of people in our local fleets who will either be slow to upgrade or won't upgrade at all, and to the extent there is a minor performance benefit (particularly with the spin sheets in super light air), then that's another variable those teams will have to account for, and the more of those variables that exist and the more work they have to do to make their boat like the top boat in the fleet, the less likely they will be to want to play.

One of the great things at NAs was saddling up next to Viper 263 halfway through the regatta to check out The Red Boat to see if Marcus & Co. had made major modifications or built a better mousetrap that none of us knew about.  They hadn't (except maybe to the extent everything looked straight, but there wasn't any new fangled rigging or other setup that hadn't occurred to the rest of us over the years).  They just sailed the boat better, and won the NAs their first time out. 
Larchmont YC Fleet
Viper 269 "Great Scott!"
Formerly Viper 222 "Ghost Panda" and Viper 161 "Vicious Panda"

Matt Rowlinson

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 11:06:27 PM »
I have commented on another thread, but will expand here. If I do the rope work myself, it will def. take hours, not minutes, that I could otherwise spend sailing. And if I have to pay for the work--price quoted is about $100 USD; will be more in canada; given how the boat eats sheets, the extra expense will likely be a couple of hundred a season. And how will this make the racing better?  'Fraid Grendel is a no. Thinking aloud here....I guess we'd end up using the Gucci sheets for regattas and having an untapered set for club racing--so another bunch of containers to keep separate and possibly get mixed up...so, jeez--still no.

Nick Ward

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 07:58:35 AM »
Everyone does not have to agree on everything all the time.   

If people that want to taper sheets are deem to be not focusing on what matters or spending extra money by others, those people can simply not taper and let those other people waste their time, focus and money.

I think pointing out that cost as a negative driver on this item is lacking, when there is a material change to the jib included in the same ballot that will drive a price increase.  Oh I know, they will last supposedly longer, but the top teams will still be buy a jib every year. 

Also I have not had any issue with the boat eating sheets, so I see this as a one time expense.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:12:31 AM by Nick Ward »
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Peter Beardsley

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 10:31:55 AM »
We can let the sailmakers chime in on the material change, but the representation that was made to the tech committee is that the material change will not result in a significant price increase, if any.
Larchmont YC Fleet
Viper 269 "Great Scott!"
Formerly Viper 222 "Ghost Panda" and Viper 161 "Vicious Panda"

John Leyland

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 12:17:49 PM »
On the matter of tapered sheets, I taught myself via Youtube to splice so could learn how to taper sheets too if I deemed necessary.  Need something to do out in the winter i.e., rainy Pacific NorthWET!

On the matter of jib materials, a good friend of mine who works for North has indicated that the price difference between Pentex and an Aramid fibre is negligible.
Viper 191 - "Moistened Bint"
Vancouver, BC

Nick Ward

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 01:30:50 PM »
Increase value equals increased price in an open market, the market determines the price. 

Per the notice " Conclusions reported from both sail makers were that Aramidfibers would retain a competitive shaped jib longer".  Longer lasting sails is an increased value to the buyer as it could result in fewer sail required to be bought.

Price is not drive by material, it is drive by value.
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Craig Wilusz

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 04:45:27 PM »
I'll chime in here on the tapered sheets idea.

 As for Jib Sheets, I see no advantage at all, so why bother.

  As for tapered spin sheets.  Setting up a continuous spin sheet, where the sail can be trimmed comfortably on a tight reach, tapering the sheets using 8mm Marston Plus, I save approximately 6.7oz total (postal scale).  So the weight savings to time and costs just don't make sense.  So, I will vote note myself.

 Stay warm.  We had ice on the bridges today here in Fort Walton, bridges were closed.  Jeezus it was cold.

Craig
Craig and Deborah
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Peter Beardsley

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 04:50:33 PM »

  As for tapered spin sheets.  Setting up a continuous spin sheet, where the sail can be trimmed comfortably on a tight reach, tapering the sheets using 8mm Marston Plus, I save approximately 6.7oz total (postal scale).  So the weight savings to time and costs just don't make sense.  So, I will vote note myself.
Never a good sign when one of the people who could have made money off of the rule change plans to vote "no"
Larchmont YC Fleet
Viper 269 "Great Scott!"
Formerly Viper 222 "Ghost Panda" and Viper 161 "Vicious Panda"

Brad Boston

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 04:59:20 PM »
I just like to tinker on my boat and make it look cool...Like I said before, you can learn on youtub and have some fun!
Part of owning a boat for me is having fun at the dock spicing it up!
Brad
Jackpot 235

Craig Wilusz

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 05:13:19 PM »
Brad needs to pimp Jackpots's trailer.

 You know, lowering it, flat/fat tires, spinner rims, underglow lights, fuzzy dice on mast crutch, kick ass sound system blasting "Informer" by Snow, custom trailer license plate like "MAPL LEF" or "HOC KEY"....
Craig and Deborah
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Tim Carter

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Re: 2018 Proposed Rule Changes
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 07:09:40 PM »
I am well stocked on the beer and popcorn,   keep 'em rolling

=)
Lt Coast Gov