Main Halyard Slippage

[Scott Raines]

Hi all. Wondering what solutions are out there for keeping the main halyard from drooping once downward pressure is loaded on the boom. Has a tensioning system similar to the jib ever been discussed?

[Ben Steinberg]

Replace the cleats if they are worn. The hard coat anodized ones last longer than the silver painted ones. Replace or end for end the halyard if there is a wear spot. The rules also allow an alternate type cleat of your choice to be installed. A locking horn cleat in place of the lower jammer would probably work out well.

[Drew Harper]

Scott,

Also make sure your crew keeps the halyard BESIDE the cleat when hoisting. If you hoist through the cleat it wears prematurely.

[Kevin Brown]

A main halyard lock would really help the Viper.  Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.

[Darren Gilbert]

I replaced one of the two jam cleats with a guy cleat.  Seems to work for us.

[Tim Carter]

A main halyard lock would really help the Viper.  Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.

I was crying for a halyard lock 3+ years ago.  Did not get many in my camp.  But I personaly still think it is the way to go, all issues considered..

[Peter Beardsley]

People who feel strongly about it can always submit a rule proposal to allow halyard locks and have everyone vote on it (unless this already happened; I'm still relatively new around here compared to some others). 

[Justin Scott]

A main halyard lock would really help the Viper.  Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.

The load argument is an old wives tale (or old riggers tale) which is not scientificaly correct. The force transmitted down the spar is equal and opposite whether the halyard is secured at the bottom of the mast, half way up the mast or at the top of the mast.

Try this simple experiment with a broom handle. Tie a weight to a string and attach it at all three points. Lift the broom handle and the same force will be transmitted down the broom handle to your hand. 

The creep argument is valid and is why you see it on big racing boats.

[Justin Scott]

100% agree that we need a better system for cleating the main halyard. I ahve one of the first carbon masts. I am very careful to keep my halyard out of the cleats and I am on my 4th set of cleats. PITA to drill out and rivet every 2 years.

[Dan Tucker]

There was a rule change that pretty much allows you to do darned near anything to secure the main halyard, as I recall.

I've seen a couple of boats with horn cleats on the mast or deck.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Reid Smythe]

"8.4 The main halyard cleats must be at or near the base of the mast and may be of any type. The primary jib halyard cleat must be of the same type and in the same place as installed by the builder and an additional jib halyard cleat may be installed on the deck or aft lip of the foredeck to help prevent the jib halyard from slipping under load."

There we go, I guess...

[Jon Stubbs]

We, here in Aus, have less of a problem with the main halyard than we have with the jib halyard.

With consistently, stronger winds here in Australia, the cleat for the jib halyard is insufficient.
The class has allowed a double cleat for the jib halyard,  and while that works, a double cleat is not a very elegant solution.
When adding an extra cleat, or a knot behind the one cleat,  it transfers the weight to the turning block at the base of the mast, which eventually bends and pulls the saddle off the mast.

We have experimented with a system that is employed in the FF15 class.
Attach  a very small, bent over, saddle to the bottom bolt of the top mast, jib halyard block. In that saddle, tie a figure 8 knot in the jib halyard. The halyard goes from from the saddle through a high load block, attached to the top of the jib and back up through the top mast, jib halyard block and then down inside the mast and through the normal system, to the single cleat on the port foredeck.

This doubles the purchase of the entire system but halves the load on all the bottom elements of the system. (saddle,block and deck cleat)

For the cost of the extra rope, and the block on the top of the jib you end up with a  system that reduces the load on all the other parts of the system that bend, break and slip. You don't need the extra cleat on the lip of the deck.

And, in strong winds.... You will love pulling on the jib fine tunes with double the purchase....they actually move....

We know this is all outside the current rules,  and if sailing in national or international viper events, would use the sanctioned system. Never the less, it is saving us investing in extra cleats etc and making sailing easier, so we will continue using the system locally. It is worth looking at it as a possible alternative to the current systems.
(Have pictures if this description is unclear)

[Jeff Jones]

John, please post pictures.

We, here in Aus, have less of a problem with the main halyard than we have with the jib halyard.

With consistently, stronger winds here in Australia, the cleat for the jib halyard is insufficient.
The class has allowed a double cleat for the jib halyard,  and while that works, a double cleat is not a very elegant solution.
When adding an extra cleat, or a knot behind the one cleat,  it transfers the weight to the turning block at the base of the mast, which eventually bends and pulls the saddle off the mast.

We have experimented with a system that is employed in the FF15 class.
Attach  a very small, bent over, saddle to the bottom bolt of the top mast, jib halyard block. In that saddle, tie a figure 8 knot in the jib halyard. The halyard goes from from the saddle through a high load block, attached to the top of the jib and back up through the top mast, jib halyard block and then down inside the mast and through the normal system, to the single cleat on the port foredeck.

This doubles the purchase of the entire system but halves the load on all the bottom elements of the system. (saddle,block and deck cleat)

For the cost of the extra rope, and the block on the top of the jib you end up with a  system that reduces the load on all the other parts of the system that bend, break and slip. You don't need the extra cleat on the lip of the deck.

And, in strong winds.... You will love pulling on the jib fine tunes with double the purchase....they actually move....

We know this is all outside the current rules,  and if sailing in national or international viper events, would use the sanctioned system. Never the less, it is saving us investing in extra cleats etc and making sailing easier, so we will continue using the system locally. It is worth looking at it as a possible alternative to the current systems.
(Have pictures if this description is unclear)

[Charlie Visser]

Karver KJ aluminum cam cleat solved my jib halyard slippage. Same hole spacing as the slipping Harken.

[Matt Rowlinson]

A main halyard lock would really help the Viper.  Besides eliminating halyard creep, it would significantly reduce load on the already noodely spar. I know, I know...so many possible improvements, which should we choose.

The load argument is an old wives tale (or old riggers tale) which is not scientificaly correct. The force transmitted down the spar is equal and opposite whether the halyard is secured at the bottom of the mast, half way up the mast or at the top of the mast.

Try this simple experiment with a broom handle. Tie a weight to a string and attach it at all three points. Lift the broom handle and the same force will be transmitted down the broom handle to your hand. 

The creep argument is valid and is why you see it on big racing boats.

Pretty sure the turning block at the top of the spar doubles the compression load between there and the cleat at the bottom, as compared with a lock.  Sorry to be an old wife.

I would support a lock IF I had ever heard of one that could be relied on to release. Main that won't come down is a recipe for fun and games at the crane after racing, to say nothing of safety issues.