Newbie question - mainsheet systems?

Johnno · March 01, 2013, 08:02:01 PM

Hi, I would like to set up end boom sheeting on my new Viper. The rules have three allowable set ups.... I don't like the look of the end boom option. Can I set it up with the 3:1 at the end oif the boom and and a single block fall to the ratchet block at centre. As well as I would like to be able to adjust the traveller down as wind strength builds. Any help would be appreciated.
JG

Ben Steinberg · March 02, 2013, 06:45:15 AM

Your proposed rigging is not class legal nor is adjusting the bridle while sailing. Proposals to change this rule have been voted in twice in the last three years. It has been opposed both times.

Drew Harper · March 02, 2013, 10:28:33 AM

Quote from: Johnno on March 01, 2013, 08:02:01 PM
Hi, I would like to set up end boom sheeting on my new Viper. The rules have three allowable set ups.... I don't like the look of the end boom option. Can I set it up with the 3:1 at the end oif the boom and and a single block fall to the ratchet block at centre. As well as I would like to be able to adjust the traveller down as wind strength builds. Any help would be appreciated.
JG

Johnno...a couple of issues with that setup would be

- Going downwind in a Viper, the driver usually grabs one purchase out fo the mainsheet fall and trims the main that way...similar to what happens with the main trimmer on a M24, M32, etc. It allows you to keep the main trimmed up for sudden acceleration moments.

- No need to 'travel' the boom. We just Vang Sheet and if you're having trouble wailing on enough vang, you should just add a triple block to the deck at the bottom of the fall, put the double on the boom side and viola...16:1 vang. That should be more than enough purchase.

Make sure when you crash that boat you DON'T dump the vang like you might on a boat with a backstay. Vang is one of the keys to keep the rig in the boat with the kite up in big air. Caps, Vang, C-ham and Mainsheet are all your backstay.

Justin Scott · March 02, 2013, 04:52:47 PM

I assume by traveller, you mean the "bridle".
As long as you go for one of the two split end mainsheet options you don't need to adjust your bridle height, as the split end mainsheet automatically centers the boom.

You can adjust the bridle length between races but you wont need to.

Upwind the gnav is an important power control. In light and medium we keep the boom on centerline. In honking breeze, we will whale on gnav and ease mainsheet/boom to leeward in the big puffs.

You will be astonished how much power you can take out of the Viper as the wind builds. We have more power than the other 20s in the light, but we are much less overpowered when the breeze goes supersonic. With 5 1/2 inches of prebend, the gnav on hard and a wide slot, it can be quite civilized on the windward rail in 25 knots.

Lee Shuckerow · March 02, 2013, 07:25:07 PM

If you put the purchase on the back of the boom you wont ever be able to center the boom. the idea of the split tail sheet is to pull the split into the block in the back which pulls it to windward. With the blocks in the back your boom would fall 6-8" to leward. Not legal anyway.
I personally would like to go to center boom trim with split tail as a class. Safer that way.

Glenn Vanheel · March 02, 2013, 07:32:44 PM

Look closely at the boat in front, this is illegal then!

Drew Harper · March 03, 2013, 10:28:10 AM

Quote from: Lee Shuckerow on March 02, 2013, 07:25:07 PM
If you put the purchase on the back of the boom you wont ever be able to center the boom. the idea of the split tail sheet is to pull the split into the block in the back which pulls it to windward. With the blocks in the back your boom would fall 6-8" to leward. Not legal anyway.
I personally would like to go to center boom trim with split tail as a class. Safer that way.

You're preaching to the choir Shuck. :-D

Johnno,

You have to have the bridle in the middle of the boat, even with the split tail option. It's just the rules. I take my bridle strap it tight to the cockpit sole with some smallish amsteel laced so you can tighten it up. Still have a bridle but it doesn't float at all. Just a mounting point for the necessary block in the mainsheet fall. Keeps the middle of the boat much simpler. I also use a small bungie retracter on the tails of the aft so they don't foul on the tiller or rudder head.

I have a new boat enroute and when I set it up, I'll post pics.

Dave Nickerson · March 03, 2013, 10:52:29 AM

Correct, the set up on the boat in front in that photo is like on a 49er and is not currently class legal. It is a set up that was included in a proposed rule change in 2012 - but that proposal did not pass.
Dave N - tech comm.

Jason Hyerstay · March 03, 2013, 02:18:10 PM

That setup needs to keep getting brought up for a vote until it passes. I tried it last year in PHRF and it was the cleanest possible setup in the cockpit. There was a good reason that the VX has end boom/end bridle as the default.

jason

Johnno · March 04, 2013, 06:51:22 PM

Quote from: Drew Harper on March 03, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: Lee Shuckerow on March 02, 2013, 07:25:07 PM
If you put the purchase on the back of the boom you wont ever be able to center the boom. the idea of the split tail sheet is to pull the split into the block in the back which pulls it to windward. With the blocks in the back your boom would fall 6-8" to leward. Not legal anyway.
I personally would like to go to center boom trim with split tail as a class. Safer that way.

You're preaching to the choir Shuck. :-D

Johnno,

You have to have the bridle in the middle of the boat, even with the split tail option. It's just the rules. I take my bridle strap it tight to the cockpit sole with some smallish amsteel laced so you can tighten it up. Still have a bridle but it doesn't float at all. Just a mounting point for the necessary block in the mainsheet fall. Keeps the middle of the boat much simpler. I also use a small bungie retracter on the tails of the aft so they don't foul on the tiller or rudder head.

I have a new boat enroute and when I set it up, I'll post pics.

Thanks Drew.... my question arises from the fact that the pics in the rules aren't totally clear and I happen to have a prefernce for a simple end boom set up... Your comments re "power control" downhill are valid... look forward to pics. Time to start experimenting...

Jeff Jones · March 04, 2013, 07:22:59 PM

That is a really nice set-up but I don't think it would work well on a viper.

The attachment points for the aft bridal on the Vx are all the way on the stern where the vipers are about a foot forward. The Vx also has a really long boom and the vipers stops well short of the stern. So... There's not really any danger of all those strings getting close to the tiller end whereas on the viper I would think you'd need a lot of stretches to keep it off.

Someone said it earlier - full on center boom is the safest, cleanest system. But in light to moderate split tail end sheeting is faster so that's what I've got.

As a side note... If your not class racing do whatever you want.

Quote from: Jason Hyerstay on March 03, 2013, 02:18:10 PM
That setup needs to keep getting brought up for a vote until it passes. I tried it last year in PHRF and it was the cleanest possible setup in the cockpit. There was a good reason that the VX has end boom/end bridle as the default.

jason

Glenn Vanheel · March 04, 2013, 10:40:48 PM

Actually it worked really well. They were to leeward and ahead of us and fetched the weather mark where we had to do a short hitch. They were a good 3-5 degrees higher with same speed. But I have mid boom setup.
FYI, it's the boat you had at last years sd noods jones. Just been refurbed this winter.

Jim Sears · March 05, 2013, 12:52:59 AM

I experimented with a VX-One type system and LOVED it! As you can see in the photo, I didn't need a single piece of extra hardware. I just moved the forward bridle to the back and used the extra block I had removed from the spin take-up system. Keeps boom centered, and when the breeze was up, it was SO nice having the 3-1purchase at the end of the boom. Down-side: couldn't really pump the main while going downwind. Up-side: you can move the mid-boom turning block WAY forward to get more room to tack the tiller extension. You can see I added a little "gybing line" down from the mid-boom block to help pull the main across quickly. This is the system I would love the class adopt as a one-design.

-Jimbo

Jim Sears · March 05, 2013, 12:55:02 AM

Oh, yeah... I bought my mainsheet extra long so I could try this before I cut it down for the class-legal system.
-Jimbo

Drew Harper · March 05, 2013, 10:05:23 AM

Quote from: Jim Sears on March 05, 2013, 12:52:59 AM
I experimented with a VX-One type system and LOVED it! As you can see in the photo, I didn't need a single piece of extra hardware. I just moved the forward bridle to the back and used the extra block I had removed from the spin take-up system. Keeps boom centered, and when the breeze was up, it was SO nice having the 3-1purchase at the end of the boom. Down-side: couldn't really pump the main while going downwind. Up-side: you can move the mid-boom turning block WAY forward to get more room to tack the tiller extension. You can see I added a little "gybing line" down from the mid-boom block to help pull the main across quickly. This is the system I would love the class adopt as a one-design.

-Jimbo

My youngest son is terrified of that system....he hates spiders and I'm certain one would move in there ;-)