the I just put my new boat together and have questions thread...

[Drew Harper]

Great play by play Ben. Don't sweat the Rondar bashers...90% of them never owned a Rondar :-))))

See if you can find a boat to go tune with. It'll help get your settings right and I can't stress enough to make notes at the end of each sail about the settings you used for the day, the conditions you were in and the results...a coaches log of sorts.

You know the drill.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call Zim, Young, Tucker, Scott or myself, we'll all happily share our settings and ideas with you.

Have a ball !

[Olaf Bleck]

can a mod move the rondar bashing to another thread?  We have zero issues with our shrouds (except not really knowing how to adjust them quite yet! :p)

Glad you're enjoying the new boat!

It ain't about Rondar bashing.  It's about solving problems for others by creating a knowledgebase.  In my case, the simple fact is I had three shroud lengths in my hands (vs the two lengths some people have said were the only ones in existence), and none of them fit my boat.  Nothing else was implied.  :-)

Also, the boat next to me, which was a new boat, also had length issues.  One of my shrouds worked for them.

What does that say?  There are inconsistencies with the boats, between shroud lengths, mast attachment point locations, u-bolt locations, and whatnot, which pose a problem.  If we document this, then people who do run into a situation wherein they expect something to just fit and it doesn't can at least find some guidance.

Another example:  I have a new mast for #24, one of the ones that had the fittings in the wrong place.  It's been reworked, but I picked it up and it was shy a headstay.  After some failed attempts to get one in a timely manner, it occurred to me to use the old one from the tin rig.  Stepped the mast and wouldn't you know it, the uppers were WAAAYYY to short.  I've since then learned (here and from personal discussions) and documented that the old headstays are substantially shorter.  49.5" from the gooseneck mark FWIW, vs the nominal spec 52"-52.5".   I jury rigged an extension so I could sail, and I'm hoping the new headstay which I now have in my hands will solve the problem.  I'll be reporting back.

Final disclaimer: I am a Rondar fan.  PY has been great, as has PZ.  I do get that they are a small company trying deal with a mess they inherited and their own mess that happened as a result, and I'm glad to see that affordable boats are popping up left and right with all the parts fitting together nicely.  Granted, the consensus is there's room for improvement from the customer's perspective, but if you really need that then spend the money on a Melges because that's where the extra dough is going.

[Ben Jacobsen]

See if you can find a boat to go tune with. It'll help get your settings right and I can't stress enough to make notes at the end of each sail about the settings you used for the day, the conditions you were in and the results...a coaches log of sorts.

yeah, we tried to go with Chuck yesterday afternoon but he got hung up with another customer and couldn't make it.  We're VERY much looking forward to lining up with someone though, NOT before a race so we can test different things and see how it goes and compare notes.  We lined up with a few of the boats as they came out as well which was a huge help.  And yeah, I need to find my wetnotes again so we can do exactly that with the log, that's always a huge help.

Thanks Drew.

It ain't about Rondar bashing.  It's about solving problems for others by creating a knowledgebase.  In my case, the simple fact is I had three shroud lengths in my hands (vs the two lengths some people have said were the only ones in existence), and none of them fit my boat.  Nothing else was implied.  :-)

I'm obviously a huge fan of forums (I own one myself and participate in 15~20), that's why I DIDN'T just send emails to Paul about all these questions.  It's better for ALL of us (especially the next new owner) to have the answers available online.  I'm just saying I NEVER mentioned shroud length, so the fact it got brought up in here after making a line joke is a bit like bashing, no?

(and why no smilies, I'm dying here! )

[Jeff Jones]

Ah Ben, nothing but love.  Now, if only my personal friend Jerome would convert life would be complete (or boring)

Lots of wine induced frustration but at the days end, absolute coolest boat most of us have ever sailed.   Many  "ah ha" moments and I swear the viper is going to save the sport  assuming our shrouds fit (kidding kinda)

You, beck and that tree-hugger harper better be in Sarnia.

Btw, owner of two rondars since 2009, now have 1 1/2 bennett vipers.   

If anyone bumps into Zimm tell him to check his email. I have a wad of bills and need a keel and rudder.   

[Ben Jacobsen]

Now, if only my personal friend Jerome would convert life would be complete (or boring)

I can't even imagine how they sail them in southern CA.  It was too light for one here.  You have to love his enthusiasm though, at least if you're local.

[Olaf Bleck]

It ain't about Rondar bashing.  It's about solving problems for others by creating a knowledgebase.  In my case, the simple fact is I had three shroud lengths in my hands (vs the two lengths some people have said were the only ones in existence), and none of them fit my boat.  Nothing else was implied.  :-)

I'm just saying I NEVER mentioned shroud length, so the fact it got brought up in here after making a line joke is a bit like bashing, no?

Not sure I follow the logic :-) 

Shrouds got brought up (by Matt, reading back) in the context of them being varied in length.  So various people posted about it.  Anyway, enough on the topic.  See you this weekend in Newport.

[Justin Scott]

 I've since then learned (here and from personal discussions) and documented that the old headstays are substantially shorter.  49.5" from the gooseneck mark FWIW, vs the nominal spec 52"-52.5".   I jury rigged an extension so I could sail, and I'm hoping the new headstay which I now have in my hands will solve the problem.  I'll be reporting back.

Final disclaimer: I am a Rondar fan.  

Olaf,

This was the result of careful testing by the class.

The first carbon mast arrived with the exact same length headstay to the mm as the headstay on the aluminum rig. The class rules at that time specified a fixed length headstay.

Due to the bend characteristics of the carbon rig, switching to carbon created lee helm. The headstay needed lengthening to sail the boat properly.

As a result, the class amended the class rule to allow a range of headstay length. The minimum remains the old length (so tin rigs remain legal) and the maximum length is the minimum length + the throw of the class std Ronstan turnbuckle. Thus a well cut headstay will have a range equal to class min and max. The minimum will be appropriate for a tin rig. Somewhere between half and max will be appropriate for a carbon rig.

I expect that as the tin finally disappears, the class members can decide to increase the min and max (but keep the range the same), but in the meantime there is a logic to our madness.

[Drew Harper]

You, beck and that tree-hugger harper better be in Sarnia.

If anyone bumps into Zimm tell him to check his email. I have a wad of bills and need a keel and rudder.   

I can't attend the NA's until 2012....I'm not welcome in Canada, they don't look kindly on Vipoer smugglers up there ;-)

JJ, I have a container heading west soon. I spoke to Zim and he thought you might be interested in one of the used keels?

Otherwise, let me know and I'll get one into this next box. Should be easy enough to ship to Tex.

[Ben Jacobsen]

on forestay length, is it a set it and forget it thing, or does this adjust according to the breeze?  I thought it was the former, but we saw someone adjusting theres on the way to the course Tuesday night, so now I'm not sure.

[Brad Boston]

Hey Ben,

We tighten ours up for Heavier air but I believe the rule says that you need to do all this before you put your main up for the day....It does help in the breeze to have less headstay sag.

Brad

Doyle Boston Sailmakers
120 Michigan Ave.
Point Edward, ON
N7V 1E6
(519) 344-5236

[Justin Scott]

on forestay length, is it a set it and forget it thing, or does this adjust according to the breeze?  I thought it was the former, but we saw someone adjusting theres on the way to the course Tuesday night, so now I'm not sure.

Your Tuesday night compadre is sailing illegal, and this is one of those honor things to keep the boat simple that we all adhere to. Obviously, if a new owner is tweaking to find the sweet spot for helm on way to beer can race, that is one thing. But altering after leaving the dock after a while is not quite right.   

It is set and forget for each day. In theory you can adjust before you go out sailing. I find that uppers tighten the headstay fairly effectively.

[Matt Sole]

On tuesdays, most of us leave the dock 10 minutes before the gun, so I doubt protesting anyone would happen as lots of things get set up on the way to the race course.
Of course very different situation from a regatta.

[Luke Porter]

Have tons of fun. Glad you're in the class. Can you write up your first sailing experience for us so that we may post it in the upcoming Rondar Raceboats International Newsletter and on the class website?

First sail with #166 we managed a second in PHRF, that counted as a good first sailing experience :) And I've had my GoPro hanging off the end of the boom almost every time we've been out in the hopes of catching something worth watching. When I get a chance and some sort of decent editing software I'll put together what I have so far.

Off to our first away regatta on Wed (Charlottetown, PEI). We'll see how the island folk react to a Viper.

Luke.

[Dan Tucker]

Off to our first away regatta on Wed (Charlottetown, PEI). We'll see how the island folk react to a Viper.

BEAUTIFUL place. We need a fleet there to host a Viper regatta! Enormous haul, but I love PEI.

Good Luck, and have fun!

[Ben Jacobsen]

And I've had my GoPro hanging off the end of the boom almost every time we've been out in the hopes of catching something worth watching. When I get a chance and some sort of decent editing software I'll put together what I have so far.

how are you attaching it to the boom?  I have the suction cup and bar/post mounts, but I'm thinking of getting a super clamp and the tripod mount...