the I just put my new boat together and have questions thread...

[Ben Jacobsen]

OK, put the boat together yesterday with a TON of help (and stupid questions) from Jep and Zach (thanks boys, above and beyond!), but still have a few questions if you guys don't mind!

1) there was a knot with a washer on the tackline inside the pole.  It was clearly too close to the tack of the chute as it wouldn't go into the sock at all.  Instead of moving it down the line (towards the mast) I removed it, but I'm guessing this is there to pull the pole in when you pull the chute down...  Any thoughts on needing this?
2) the vang track on the boom isn't the same boat to boat and can be adjusted sliding the track on the boom with it's slugs.  Any measurement as to where it should be, or where you guys use you vang in different conditions so we can get this "right"?  It just seems like out boom couldn't go above level which could be an issue eventually, but GNAVs are new to me.
3) how much should I cut out of the spin hallyard/belly button cord?  I knew it was too long, but it's ridiculous!  lol  I'm thinking 12~15 feet?
4) how long should a 1 piece jibsheet be?  It's almost like the boat comes with all the running rigging except jibsheets, but instead 2 nice docklines. ha ha.
5) what's the blue stap for on the gooseneck?  Jep and I were guessing it's for holding the boom on the gooseneck, but then it's like a belt and suspenders and then some with the outhaul, vang, mainsheet, pin the the gooseneck AND the strap? 
6) the keel doesn't want to sit flat, the front of the plate is ~1/4" high.  We just stood on the front to screw it down, I assume this is fine?  I'm going to try to see if longer screws will work w/o being too long as the current ones won't hit the thread in front w/o some work

thanks!  Can't wait for Tuesday night to get out there with a group.

[Jeff Jones]

1.  get rid of it.   the pole will come in when you pull the kite down and in fact the length of the tack line may actually keep the head from coming all the way in the launcher depending on how long you tie the divider between douse points on the kite.

2.  there's only about 3" of travel between full down and off on the gnav so just put the end of the boom.  So put the main up, pull on hard and if it's too far back, adjust.  Otherwise it's probably fine. There's also probably some variation between gnav post lengths from boat to boat which will affect this..

3.  go sailing, with the kite up toss the halyard out of the back of the boat.  Cut off that much.  Do it again until your happy.  I like to have mine long enough to go out of the back of the boat about a foot before i take-down.  Helps keep the kinks out.   Some like it just long enough not to affec the kite when it's up.   Personal preference.  I'd warn you however that different kites need different lengths, depending on where the upper patch is.  So for that reason alone i'd keep it just a little long.

[Jeff Jones]

4.  Spot on.  Sorry i cant help you with the length but some salsa line makes good jib sheet.   Stock jib sheets make excellent dock lines, tie-down straps etc.  Also useful if your hauling brush from the house and need to keep it secure. 

5.  Blue strap with buckles goes around the mast and is the forward point for the gnav purchase.  I probably have some pictures if you need them.

6.  The keel naturally wants to do this when it's not buckled down because it's swept back (If you lift it alone on a hoist the strut will be vertical and the plate will be lifted at an angle). 

[Drew Harper]

OK, put the boat together yesterday with a TON of help (and stupid questions) from Jep and Zach (thanks boys, above and beyond!), but still have a few questions if you guys don't mind!

1) there was a knot with a washer on the tackline inside the pole.  It was clearly too close to the tack of the chute as it wouldn't go into the sock at all.  Instead of moving it down the line (towards the mast) I removed it, but I'm guessing this is there to pull the pole in when you pull the chute down...  Any thoughts on needing this?

You do need this, otherwise it's possible for the pole to stay out...highly unlikely but possible. Just move it down two feet. There's a policy at Rondar...the new guy on the production team is called "small balls". The new small balls hasn't figured out how to follow this measument yet. He's getting it. (FWIW: the "small balls" on the laminating team has worked their 19 years I believe...lol)

2) the vang track on the boom isn't the same boat to boat and can be adjusted sliding the track on the boom with it's slugs.  Any measurement as to where it should be, or where you guys use you vang in different conditions so we can get this "right"?  It just seems like out boom couldn't go above level which could be an issue eventually, but GNAVs are new to me.

Two things on the track. I always take the small screw out of the mast end of the GNAV tube (holds in the plastic fitting to attach to the GNAV gooseneck) and drill a small relief into the GNAV gooseneck with a 3/32" bit...only about 1/8" deep. I pair a slightly longer screw back in the fitting. This allows me to screw the GNAV onto the gooseneck so it never falls out. The way I now measure the track position is that when the GNAV is attached, it just barely rests on the cockpit floor without the main attached. I'm a pretty big guy and have never been able to vang to the end of the track...even with an extra cascade under the boom (16:1)

3) how much should I cut out of the spin hallyard/belly button cord?  I knew it was too long, but it's ridiculous!  lol  I'm thinking 12~15 feet?

I leave mine original length. I toss the tail out the boat at the roundings and is really helps keep the assoholes out. You should hook this halyard up behind your car and to a tree and stretch the shit out of it. Really helps on the hockle thing.

4) how long should a 1 piece jibsheet be?  It's almost like the boat comes with all the running rigging except jibsheets, but instead 2 nice docklines. ha ha.  36' seems the right length.

Spot on. I use one of the jib sheets for a dock line and the other I either split into two 3' pieces and tie onto the lifting eyes for the #2 to hike against or remove the core and replace with some bungee, splice on a couple of beaners and clip into the eyes for a long throw hiking line.

Make sure you don't cut your continuous jib sheets too short. The boat sails really well all by itself if they are.....(sigh)

5) what's the blue stap for on the gooseneck?  Jep and I were guessing it's for holding the boom on the gooseneck, but then it's like a belt and suspenders and then some with the outhaul, vang, mainsheet, pin the the gooseneck AND the strap?  

That's the GNAV strap.  Wrap the strap around the mast and hook the GNAV purchase shackle to it. Otherwise you are putting all the GNAV load on the gooseneck.

6) the keel doesn't want to sit flat, the front of the plate is ~1/4" high.  We just stood on the front to screw it down, I assume this is fine?  I'm going to try to see if longer screws will work w/o being too long as the current ones won't hit the thread in front w/o some work

Make certain that this plate is aligned. You should loosen up the two middle bolts one full turn so that the plate slope around on the keel...launch the boat then slide the keel plate into better adjustment. There's always some variation and as the keel plate recess has some round (fillet) to it, the plate may simply have to be moved towards the rear a bit. When you are lowering the keel, lean your knee into the hoisting purchase the last 2 inches and this will move the keel forward enough to land squarely on your properly positioned keel screw inserts.

Make sure you only use the screws provided. We used to supply bolts but this encourages people to weak down on them..popping the too plate off. It's important to remember that all the keel parts are a cascading series of sacrificial components. The keel plate and bottom (fairing) plates attached with polysulphide so that in the event of a grounding, it won't split the boat in half. I prefer 5200 for these attachments but the cure times are too long the fast cure versions are about the same sheer strength as regular polysulphide.

thanks!  Can't wait for Tuesday night to get out there with a group.

Have tons of fun. Glad you're in the class. Can you write up your first sailing experience for us so that we may post it in the upcoming Rondar Raceboats International Newsletter and on the class website?

[Justin Scott]

   Stock jib sheets make excellent dock lines, tie-down straps etc.  Also useful if your hauling brush from the house and need to keep it secure. 

I literally laughed out loud. So true, but doesnt make particularly good tie down lines...too stretchy.

[Matt Sole]

There should be a pricing option for the boat to come without halyards or sheets. All that stuff is crap.

Also can we make sure that the bloke who makes the shrouds knows how to use a tape measure?
Pretty BS when pairs of shrouds are different lengths.

[Ben Steinberg]

6. Loosen the bolts that hold the keel top plate to the keel a turn or two so that it can wiggle a bit. Then lower the keel and get the forward and aft bolts in. Then tighten back up the other bolts. Should take care of any fit/ craftsmanship issues.

[Jeff Jones]

Its also very likely that there is a giant gap around the keel where it exits the hull allowing it to slop around.  Sounds like you have a skinny Rondar keel.  Had it been a fat Rondar keel and snug fit at the base and rest of the cassette the keel couldnt cant fwd like it is.  You can always remove the keel and stuff some more carpet in.   

Ben on my sloppy rondars I always drew a line down the center of the keel plate on the bottom, marked the center of the keel in front and back then made sure the plate was straight when the keel was up.  On recent Rondar models the keel plate has slotted holes.  With a skinny keel I'd bet you could be angled 5 deg to one side if you didn't check.  But I don't think this has anything to do with side to side alignment bit a very loose fit in the trunk.

6. Loosen the bolts that hold the keel top plate to the keel a turn or two so that it can wiggle a bit. Then lower the keel and get the forward and aft bolts in. Then tighten back up the other bolts. Should take care of any fit/ craftsmanship issues.

[Drew Harper]

There should be a pricing option for the boat to come without halyards or sheets. All that stuff is crap.

Also can we make sure that the bloke who makes the shrouds knows how to use a tape measure?
Pretty BS when pairs of shrouds are different lengths.

Yeah, the new guy at SuperSpar seems to be on a slow learning curve.

I like the line kit. The jib sheets are decent as long as you want single sheeting...I prefer continuous.

The spin sheet is good line, just too short if you rig continuous. I built an 80' for the Bay. It allows me to ease the kite enough in 25 after a crash. Stupid rules won't allow tapered sheets though (but makes us splice split-tails...lmao). We built coreless eyes to tie the pennant to.

Yeah Matt...the "small balls" at SuperSpar is a bit daft.

[Paul Young]

Hi Ben,

The knot in the downhaul is necessary, it should be long enough to allow the tack to just sit in the mouth of the chute when stowed. If you do not have it then the pole will not retract properly when you drop.

The vang track may need adjusting a little on the boom to suit different mainsail leech lengths. It is supplied in the correct position for the Hyde sail.

I prefer the spin line long becuase it means the guy dropping the chute can stand up and get big armfuls of rope to drop quickly. if you cut it too short as most people do, then you have no slack in the system and have to "hand over hand the line" and make lots of little grabs at the line. Very slow. The cluster F***s come from coiling the line when you trail. so don't. tie the line up to the head of the mast and back down to the spreaders.

For the same reason seperate jib sheets make way more sense than a continuous one. You need it long enough to be able to sit aft and ease the jib in big breeze so you wind up with a pile of rope you dont need if you have a one piece. Before rushing to buy new ones, try them as supplied, you make like it. Every boat I have crewed with a single jib sheet has been a PIA.

The blue strap is for the take off of the cascade purchase system. Doing it this way balances the inwards  and outwards load on the gooseneck of the purchase and the gnav car trying to push the boom off.

The keel plate naturally wants to sit up at the front as the bulb weight tries to centralise itself under the boat. The keel is raked aft slightly. The point of aligning the top plate is so that the plate lines up in the recess and the bolt holes line up when the keel is down.As Drew says, do not use longer screws as you will simply pull the threaded part off the base plate when it hits the bottom off the socket.

Hope this helps. Any more questions give me a ring.

Paul Young.

[Paul Young]

There should be a pricing option for the boat to come without halyards or sheets. All that stuff is crap.

Also can we make sure that the bloke who makes the shrouds knows how to use a tape measure?
Pretty BS when pairs of shrouds are different lengths.

Hi Matt, the line we get is Danish Robline supplied to us by Harken UK. It is obviously possible to spend way more money on superior line if you want, but the standard stuff currently supplied is perfectly good quality. I wouldn't bother changing it out myself, I would just use it until it naturally wears out then change to something different, if you want.

This arose becuase I had some longer shrouds made up and one of them found its way into a rigging pack. I have the other one here. It is not a measurement issue at Superspar.

Cheers,

Paul.

[Drew Harper]

Some points about the shroud length issue:

- everyone has mucked this up. I know Brian and several East Coaster were providing input to Superspar about lengths. This has ended with Paul being the final say...finally.

- there WAS an issue with 5 or 6 masts being made incorrectly that required temporary longer shrouds while new masts were made in replacement. The West Ended up with 5 of these masts and 4 of those have made their way to the owners.

- we have to build to a baseline of measurements for the sails we provide for the boat. The wire kit, as supplied fits the Hydes well....at least to the odd twenty boats I've commissioned. it doesn't fit the Ullmans for squat. They insist on a shorter headstay so the caps are way too short for that setup. No way to deal with this as a manufacturer.  The problem is warranty. If we supply the mast and wire, we warranty it. If you supply the wire, and get a failure, your rigger is your warranty point. If the mast inverts, it's on you...if the mast fails, it's on us.

FWIW, I am working with Ryan at the West Marine rig shop to develop a significant upgrade line kit for the Viper that they will have on their price sheet. I've encouraged them to single item various Viper lines as a separate skew code so that someone can call West to order and have it either delivered or they can pu at their local store....lots of Wests around. West rigging also has all the Viper wire sizes in their computer to they can make stock wire for you.

The Robline line set is a great compromise on cost and quality. Sure, we could supply a full Maffi kit but it's contrary to the affordable cost mantra of the class.

[Ben Jacobsen]

Have tons of fun. Glad you're in the class. Can you write up your first sailing experience for us so that we may post it in the upcoming Rondar Raceboats International Newsletter and on the class website?

yeah, we'll work something up.  For now here's the ride home via the gopro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqHyOlYzTRI

it's about ~10 minutes/images short though, the gopro ran out of batteries in Newport after the long (traffic) drive home.  Haven't sailed with the gopro yet, but that will come.

[Olaf Bleck]

Some points about the shroud length issue:

FWIW: I've had three different sets/lengths of lowers in my hand at once.  None of them fit #56 with the length adjustment plates I was given, though a couple shackles made one set work.  A longer set conveniently went to another new boat at CRW where the set shipped with it was too short.

[Ben Jacobsen]

can a mod move the rondar bashing to another thread?  We have zero issues with our shrouds (except not really knowing how to adjust them quite yet! :p)

We had a great 2 races last night.  We went out early to practice and it picked up to 18~20, had a blast practicing in that as it's my Dad's second time in a viper and driving one.  I'd forgotten how easily they gybe at speed, the main just pops over.  And the acceleration is SO much quicker -vs- the open.  Our biggest issue though is we're VERY much at the beginning of the learning curve for tuning the boat and we started in ~18 ish right as the seabreeze kicked through the slot, then it was less out a bit, more as we came back, less in at Rose, then kept dropping right up to the race.  So not only do we not really know our adjustments yet, but we were aiming at a moving target.  Wind was down to anywhere from 8~12 for the races I'd bet, 3 up hiking, but not all the time.

In both races we were fouled at the start (because the other boat said I had to hit him for it to be a foul, really?) but in the first race we were in second coming into the weather mark for a brief moment, but then had to dip 2 for 4th as the first place boat covered us.  But it felt great to be mid pack.  Downwind we manage to pass those 2 again, but again for a brief moment, then back to 4th, then 2 more got by further down the track when we split sides unfortunately.

Second race was just an up and back, and we were NOT powered up right for half of the first upwind leg.  We finally sorted it out (trim the main and HIKE!!!) and could keep up with boats instead of being passed.  The first 6 boats rounded all VERY close to each other and we were in 6th maybe 7th at that point?  We hung with them downwind, but weren't gaining or losing ground, so we split gybes to try to come in at the boat end of the finish on starboard, but yeah, totally blew our angles forcing an extra gybe!

All in all we had an great night.  It was fun practicing in some breeze for sure.  We have a TON to learn and are basically trying to stay close to a boat or two at this point so we can gauge how we're doing relative to someone who has more time.  We know we have a lot to learn, but that's part of the fun.